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Post by totalcroatia on May 14, 2011 7:03:11 GMT 1
Does anyone know anything about this? Came across this report stari-grad.hr/?show=11437&nid=61063 which has tportal.hr as the source. I haven't heard anything about it elsewhere - any truth to it? |
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Post by Madgolfer on May 14, 2011 7:35:43 GMT 1
This has certainly bas been talked about before, but this is the first ive heard of it as well. If applied will almost certainyl have lots of "clauses" as to what will be given an amnesty and what will not. Obviously an amnesty tax will apply.....  |
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Post by gmh on May 14, 2011 10:42:32 GMT 1
There's an apartment building next to my inlaws that was built 7 years ago and has stood finished and empty ever since because they didn't abide by some law and couldn't get a usage permit.
I've seen many buildings like this and I always thought that it would be a good idea for the government to issue permission on the basis that a percentage of the apartments be given over for some kind of low rent social housing scheme.
There's certainly enough people that could do with somewhere cheaper to live.
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Post by Ribaric on May 14, 2011 11:13:17 GMT 1
Rumour has it that over 50% of the houses on Vir have no papers at all and there is no sewage treatment infrastructure for them. Many are "owned" by people registered as "Branitelji" (defenders) and are a political problem as a consequence. It will be interesting to see the whites of some eyes if this turns out to be true.
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Post by Madgolfer on May 30, 2011 7:40:35 GMT 1
From Croatian Times;
The Croatian government is expected to present a bill soon that would legalise some 150,000 illegally built properties in Croatia, the daily Jutarnji List writes.
The government proposes to fine the owners, with fees going toward local and state budgets.
The new law would give these property owners a second chance, Croatian Prime Minister Jadranka Kosor has said.
„That way we will solve the problems of many families that invested large sums of money into the construction of these properties. That would provide people with a new life."
Not all illegally built properties would be legalised, however. Those in protected natural areas on cultural heritage territory would remain unlawful.
The idea about the legalisation had been proposed several years ago by several officials of the Croatian Employers Union (HUP), who reasoned that the move would ensure additional budget contributions while at the same time giving people a second chance.
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Post by mambo on May 31, 2011 17:30:45 GMT 1
At least they finally understand that paying a fine is much better for the state than just destroying everything.
Still I keep wondering what the inspectors were doing when all these houses were built. If all of a sudden someone starts building it is normal for inspectors to pass by and check papers (at least in other countries).
In Croatia they love harassing companies, people etc on a continuous basis, but the moment someone starts building they look the other way ?
Wonder how much money is required to make them look the other way ?
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Post by Madgolfer on Jun 1, 2011 7:51:31 GMT 1
A nice idea on paper for getting more money into the Govt. coffers but in reality they would have to have either a delayed payment scheme or offer a monthly payment schedule of some sort.
I cant imagine many "locals" being able (or willing) to come up with any tax or fine payment whatsoever, they just don't have the money.
Depends on the level of fine obviously, but if current building rate taxes are applied then forget it!
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Post by Madgolfer on Jun 1, 2011 20:17:29 GMT 1
From todays Croatian Times
State may be guarantor for loans to legalise illegaly built homes
Croatian government could serve as the guarantor for loans taken out by owners of illegally built properties in order to legalise them, the daily Jutarnji List writes.
The representative of the Croatian Employers’ Union (HUP) and one of the main proponents of the new bill that would give these owners a second chance, Ivan Miloloza, said that such loans would be the only way for some to undertake legalisation.
The loans would be long-term, and if they were not paid back, the state would get the home. Families of the property owners would not be able to inherit them without taking on the responsibility of paying back the loans.
If the owners are not able to get loans, the new bill, which is still under debate, would remain an unimplementable political move.
"Everyone would benefit from this. The illegal builders will solve their nightmare, they’ll be able so sell their houses, while the state will get revenues from legalisation and localities from municipal fees," Miloloza said.
The head of the Independent Croatian Trade Unions Kresimir Sever said that one must ensure that the legalisation bill does not lead to profits for the richest, who were illegally building apartments for sale.
"Many people were forced into it, and they did not have money for necessary papers," he said, adding that the two categories should not be confused.
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Post by Ribaric on Jun 2, 2011 9:12:58 GMT 1
"Many people were forced into it, and they did not have money for necessary papers," he said, adding that the two categories should not be confused."
Not wishing to seem overly cynical here but now we need a good unbiassed and clean inspectorate to sort out who meets the specifications of "forced into it" and who just built and avoided paying tax and without a care for the planning rules. Can such paragons of virtue to staff this inspectorate be found? It sounds like a great job with significant "leverage" to me.
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Post by crojoe on Jun 2, 2011 13:03:44 GMT 1
Today upon hearing this good news, I have decided to join the rich and devoted club of house builders in the illegal house building scheme. As always, it's nice to cut corners and skirt the law, knowingly build without proper planning permits and get away with it. Maybe this is the answer to all you forigners’ problems with permits. Just loose your papers and say you built it illegally, pay the token fine and reclassify it as a rental.
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Post by Madgolfer on Jun 3, 2011 7:03:24 GMT 1
Government to set limits for legalisation of illegal properties
(Croatian Times)
Not all of some 150,000 illegally built properties will be eligible for legalisation under the new bill currently under debate, daily Jutarnji List writes.
Owners of buildings located fewer than 100 meters from the sea – unless they are agricultural objects or houses used for permanent residence – will not be able to legalise their properties. Also those who had illegally built in national parks, natural and regional parks or on planned transportation corridors, water and energy facilities would also be excluded from the new opportunity to legalise their buildings.
Also exempt would be properties built on land provided for tourism, hospitality and manufacturing purposes, as well as on agricultural land, in the forests, at an archaeological site or those areas protected by UNESCO World Heritage status. Also objects in special water protection areas and in areas for exploitation of mineral resources will not be included in the new law on legalisation, expected to be sent for parliamentary debate today (Thu).
Structures built from materials that are not durable and/or safe will also not be legalised.
The legalisation process will be initiated at the request of the owners, who will have to pay a yet undetermined amount. The amount will be calculated within 60 days of when the law takes effect. The fee will have to be paid within 30 days of receipt of the decision, or spread over two years at the longest, the daily writes.
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Post by zvekov on Jun 3, 2011 18:44:25 GMT 1
crojoe.. i like your thinkin...
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Post by propertymanagement on Jun 5, 2011 1:23:11 GMT 1
Very very likely that Cro government will soon legalize as much as possible .... the main reason is because they desperately need money. I expect this to happen in the next 6-12 months.
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Post by splitpersonality on Jun 23, 2011 12:58:48 GMT 1
This issue was discussed in several other threads. There are two major categories of illegal houses: those built in Communism and those built after Croatian independence (1991). There are complex issues surrounding both categories. The majority in the former group are family homes which do not include, or do not primarily consist of, rentals. This is really not the place to discuss Communist laws; let me just give an example of police in this period harassing people for the crime of going to church. On Sundays, church holidays etc. The comrades had no qualms over enforcing laws, be they sensible or not! And yet these thousands of illegally-built houses were left standing, all over Croatia and Montenegro, and to a lesser extent Slovenia and the landlocked parts of Yugoslavia. Clearly it's not a simple matter of which way the inspectors were looking.
As for the post-1991 houses, consider that during the war ('91-'95) nearly all Croatian hotels were full of refugees, primarily from Bosnia, but also from war-stricken parts of Croatia. The hotels were pillaged; plumbing fixtures were stolen etc. When the war was over, tourists came back, but the hotels were now closed. Many of them still are now, in 2011, including several major ones, and many more were only reopened in the last couple of years. Enterprising house-owners "managed" and the Tudjman regime of the 1990s simply couldn't keep up with the illegal construction boom - they had bigger issues to deal with, such as rebuilding the destroyed 30% of the country. It's clearly a serious problem NOW, but now we are getting as many tourists as before the war... it just didn't seem like a serious enough issue before.
All this is of course just my opinion but I hope it at least contributes to clarifying the issue in some non-Croats' minds... I remember that in the late 1990s, a thousand German Mark salary (500 €) seemed like a fantastical, extravagant amount to me.
Back to 2011: as I wrote in another thread, the legalization process is handled, for the time being, by local authorities. They are the ones deciding what will get legalized and what won't, and for how much. The sums in circulation are in the mid to high five figures (in Euros), and the most common process, in the parts of the country where the legal framework has already been drawn up, is for the owner to get a bank loan on the land plot - obviously the house is illegal and therefore nonexistant from the bank's point of view - use the money to pay the legalization fee, then get a mortgage on the actual house to pay back the first loan.
Numerous meetings between local government reps and groups of house owners are being held in and around Split in recent months to discuss what I just explained. The meetings are unsurprisingly often acrimonious.
Let me also add that elections are coming up in Croatia, in the fall, and this is certain to be one of the biggest issues aside from EU accession. It was already a major issue in the local elections, and in fact (again, in my opinion) heavily contributed to the victory of the incumbent Mayor of Split.
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