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Post by Madgolfer on Mar 2, 2010 16:04:27 GMT 1
We seem to have some every good ideas coming forward here form the various members, so perhaps we should set up an alternative political party? ;D
Some potential names might be........
Ordinary Foreigners Undermining Corruption & Kickbacks (Party)
Croatian Ordinary Republican Residents Undermining Peoples Trust (Party)
Any other suggestions? ;D
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svinisce
New Member
[M0:1]nr. 1 word: "polako"
Posts: 6
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Post by svinisce on Mar 2, 2010 17:17:40 GMT 1
PP, polako party ?
Like rain through the rocks, slowly clean excellent drinkable water comes out. But polako, as Croatia is a young post-communist/post-war country. You don't have to squeeze the rock, just wait for the water.
And to put it straight, still loads to do, but recent moves by as well Kosor as Josipovic give a fair reason to see things changing for the better.
Bog, pim.
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Post by boris on Mar 2, 2010 18:59:05 GMT 1
Also the Cro Airlines stewardesses ... they aren't downcast, they are trying to demonstrate their superiority by being cool to the passengers. After all, they are the Croatian version of WAGS. Wags? You do not mean "old Hags"?
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Post by boris on Mar 2, 2010 19:33:40 GMT 1
No chance for Croatia, just some examples: the city of Split (mayor Kerum) is donating 50.000 euros so that CRO pop singer Oliver Dragojevic can have a koncert in London's most prestigious venue - Royal Albert Hall. The Mayor is claiming this is a good tourist promotion for Split. Idiot! www.jutarnji.hr/zeljko-kerum--oliver-u-londonu-promocija-je-splita/599631/Zagreb Tourist Board exhibited recently in New York at a Travel show, separately from the CRO national board, cost about 30K dollars. They are trying to atract American tourist to come to Zagreb. Crazy!
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Post by mambo on Mar 2, 2010 21:11:22 GMT 1
Normally people GET money when they give a concert. Bringing money to perform somewhere is turning the world upside down.
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Post by 3lions on Mar 2, 2010 21:30:36 GMT 1
...personally I would pay money not to see him, but there you go.
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Post by mambo on Mar 4, 2010 14:36:10 GMT 1
Solitum,
Increasing tax will only leave the customers with less money to spend, which means less demand for products, a demand for a higher salary, which in turn will damage the position of companies. . It is 100 % clear to me that Croatia on its own will not be able to get out of this crisis. It is also 100 % clear that only the private sector will eventually be able to create a lasting economy, everybody working for the government is not really an option. . The big problem however is that banks are no longer borrowing any money, foreign investors are running into a huge bureaucracy and into too much opposition. . If this government wants to get something going they should IMMEDIATELY reduce the red tape and then I am thinking of:
1. Reducing legislation for setting up companies (although it sounds like a one-stop shop, reality is that it is a one stop to disaster, once the company is founded the new company is hit with loads of hidden unnecessary legislation).
2. Reducing procedures for foreign investement
3. Fast tracking location and building permisssions (no permission requirements for installing machines). If a company wants to construct a production facility it should not take years before
4. Delegating inspection procedures to accredited companies. (why do you need to wait months for an inspector to show up when the company which installed the equipment can also do the certification, as is normal within the EU).
5. Lowering cost for companies to hire personnel by having the government take over several cost or lowering the cost. If the government now pays health care, unemployment benefits etc have companies pay the salary of unemployed while the government pay the health care and other taxes. At least people will have a job again and stay in the working rythm. It may cause companies to hire personnel more easily.
6. Remove turn over requirements for foreign owned companies. (foreign owners are now told to reach a certain turn over otherwise they will not get a work permit and thus staying permit) Small companies or investors will be more willing to invest without these requirements.
7. Set up a decent master plan for tourism development and get rid of all the short term programs. If someone rents space from the city for a kiosk, fast food etc it will be for 10 years and not just for 1 year. With the knowledge of having the permit for 10 years entrepreneurs will be willing to invest in their location. You cannot expect people to invest if they don't know if they will get the location the year after (or that a politician will give it to a friend).
8. No more pet projects which are just schemes to steal hundreds of millions of euros.
9. Immediate separation within the court system of business and private court cases. If should not be allowed that companies, needing an immediate verdict, have to wait 5 or 10 years due to an enormous back log within the court system.
10. An overall change from 'total control' to having trust in the workings of the market and punishment when things go wrong. Don't treat companies like criminals, companies need to work, need to provide work, be able to pay taxes etc.
11. Invest in infra structure along the coast (roads, lights, signs, bicycle paths, walk ways etc)
12. Support the creation of logisitical centers by simplifying customs procedures.
13. Creating legislation for alternative energy use (delivering back to HEP) and supporting foundation of alternative energy producing companies
14. To help the housing market the government could issue government guarantees for cheap affordable houses. This will ensure banks will hand out mortgages much easier and it will get the housing market going again. The idea of government guarantees is not new, it is used in the Netherlands with a lot of success.
These are some of the actions the government could take to help this country get back on its feet again.
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Post by boris on Mar 4, 2010 16:16:06 GMT 1
Mambo, first class stuff - thanks, but I still think devaluation of Kuna is the key - No.1 step!
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Post by francis on Mar 4, 2010 17:25:15 GMT 1
For many of us that has d o o, this also would be so bad, as the company owns, us money in kuna, or can you do a contract with your company to cover this ?
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Post by boris on Mar 4, 2010 19:07:36 GMT 1
BORIS - I agree with you. but would it cause riots? Carol, no riots IMO, if the government properly explains to the people. Maybe some well off people would complain, but they are in a minority.
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Post by justapixel on Mar 5, 2010 9:34:32 GMT 1
Errr.... what exactly would devaluation of Kuna accomplish? Prices would rise, foreign debt would rise sharply, only minuscule export oriented companies (all three of them ) would feel a slight bit relieved, which would soon get compensated by the crashing strength of economy around them falling down the drain. Devaluation of Kuna is probably the worst thing that can happen to Croatia right now. OTOH, it would topple Jadranka's government, so it can't be completely bad ;D . .
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Post by solitum on Mar 5, 2010 12:46:08 GMT 1
Solitum, Increasing tax will only leave the customers with less money to spend, which means less demand for products, a demand for a higher salary, which in turn will damage the position of companies. I disagree The problems is that you have a huge part of the people getting their paid by the public or from banks, insurance companies etc. all from industries which does bring 1 Kuna into Croatia, in most cases these people even get above average salaries, pensions etc. If you would increase taxes and contribution on salaries e.g. lager then 5.000 kuna, you will hit exactly this group of people. Which will not hurt Croatian companies*, as these people are not spending their marginal income on stuff produced in Croatia, if that was the case, I would 100% agree to you statement above, but they don't, they use their marginal income to buy cars, Mobile phone, Television etc. all stuff which Croatia import from other countries. So if Croatia would increase taxes for this group of people, and spend this on removing contribution and taxes in export oriented production companies, I am sure it will have a positive impact on the economy. If that was the case would occur I would be able to employ up to 15 new people this year. Under the existing conditions, it is not even worth trying. *Before anybody, get exited, yes I know a few trade companies will suffer, but you can not live from importing and selling.
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Post by Carol on Mar 5, 2010 13:12:23 GMT 1
But Solitum, these are netto salaries you are quoting and the employer pays the part that makes them brutto. So all that would happen in the case of public sector employees is that the government would have to pay itself more taxes.
Therefore the only ones who would be hurt were the private sector employers who are already struggling under heavy taxation. In Croatia, employees don't care what their taxes are because they never feel like they have to pay them anyway.
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Post by solitum on Mar 5, 2010 20:12:20 GMT 1
Everything here is netto
Statistic office reports in net, potential employers ask for netto, the main part of people have no relation to income tax (expect maybe for once a year when they make income statement)
I have done lots of job interviews here, I did not have one single person asking for gross wage, always net amount.
Nevertheless I should of course have made it clearer, the 5000 is net amount which corresponds to about 8000 kuna gross wage, so what is wanted to say is that gross amounts higher then this should be taxed higher, so that the state could lower its costs.
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Post by mambo on Mar 6, 2010 1:30:05 GMT 1
Solitum,
If you tax the gross income higher there are 2 choices:
1. The workers will receive less Netto income, which means they can spend less money on buying products. Since the average salary already covers only 80 % of the average monthly cost, the mathematics become extemely simple...................people will not be able to pay their bills and the economy gets into deeper s.h.i.t.
2. It is also possible to have the tax paid by the companies, but there you will run into other problems. A 5000 Net salary means a 10,000 Gross salary. Tax it more and companies will see their monthly cost increased. Suppose they will have to pay 1000 Kuna per month per worker extra a company with 10 workers will have to pay 10,000 Kuna extra each month.
This 10,000 Kuna has to come from somewhere, it does not come falling out of the sky. So the easiest solution for a company to find this 10,000 Kuna is to ? Yep, fire one worker. The net result is then that the government is not going to get the 5000 Kuna extra per month, in fact the result will be ZERO (less tax, unemployment benefit, health care etc), one worker will be out of a job, the company has one worker less, so that the other 9 have to work harder and it will lower the chances of growth in the future.
In addition taxing the upper bracket of the gross income is more a fashion statement than something which really brings in money. The amount of people who earn high salaries is limited, so it is not going to do anything.
The government needs to raise more money to pay all the bills, however.................they can also lower the total spending by working more efficiently, having less people working within the government or on state level (200 police agents in a 5000 citizens village is ridiculous, 6 people working in a kataster where one or two can do the job is the same). I understand that it is sort of 'keep the unemployment figures low by giving everyone a job', but it is no longer possible.
If we then look at the tourist areas, where lots of people want to do something, but cannot get permission.................it becomes pretty easy. Let those people work, let them do their thing. Set some basic rules, have some people check if those rules are followed, but let these people earn some money this summer !! In many countries children start selling lemonade, wash cars or do other things to get some money, here the inspectors / police would round them up and throw them in jail for working without permission. It is just an example, but it is the way the government works here.
What could also work is a law, which exists in Holland. If you cannot explain to the police where your money comes from (e.g. you drive a 100,000 euro car and have no job) they can take all the money and possessions away, leaving the criminal with no money and no assets.
On the political level it can also be easily arranged. In many countries people entering politics have to declare (up to the last penny) what they own, how much money they have etc. During their period as politician and when they leave politics it will be checked again and all which cannot be explained will be taken back. This would also apply to all family members of the politician, in order to avoid what has happened now in Azerbijan, where the children of the president all of a sudden own houses in Dubai valuing over 75 million USD !!!!
Ah well, none of these measures will ever be implemented, instead the country will go slowly, but surely down the drain.
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