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Post by alsdoubles on Aug 29, 2004 23:15:19 GMT 1
I wonder what effect, what mixed messages Presidents Mesic's views in todays Croatian paper, on the question of the huge amount of foreigners showing interest in buying coastal properties. He states...'Croatian properties are for Croats.' Is this law or just his own personal view. A popular political view maybe. Meaningless? After all he is just, a head of state. Is this the general view? Government policy. Needs clarifying I think. Small time right now but, feelings will get stronger as time goes by and properties get thinner on the ground. A good solid political position set in 'the books' would be useful to work with, for all you (us) investors. But what do I know, I only live here, in Croatia. I like the place. Relaxing.
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Post by Martin Westby on Aug 30, 2004 14:18:27 GMT 1
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Post by Robert0 on Aug 30, 2004 17:05:33 GMT 1
" Osvrnuo se i na gomilu zahtjeva za kupnju nekretnina na Jadranu, naglasivši kako se Hrvatska mora što skorije oèitovati o tome što je njezino nacionalno dobro, te ako se odluèi da su to otoci i priobalje, onda valja donijeti propis kako nekretnine mogu kupovati samo hrvatski državljani."
Translation:
"(President Mesic) also commented on large number of applications for seaside property purchases saying that Croatia must decide as soon as possible on what constitutes her national treasure and, if it is decided it is the (Adriatic) coast and islands, the law should be introduced allowing only Croatian citizens to by real estate."
Mr Mesic going back to his hard-line nationalist roots to win the popular support? Quite sad really…
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Post by Culchie on Aug 30, 2004 17:40:44 GMT 1
I think Switzerland have a similar policy, allowing only Citizens or 'Naturalised' citizens to purchase property.
Culchie
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Post by alsdoubles on Aug 30, 2004 23:10:46 GMT 1
Were I in the UK and thinking of buying, or be well 'into' some kind of deal with a Croatian property. Or thinking really hard about Croatia...which I aint...I did my thinking 12 months ago. Then did it, with a Croatian wife. Handy aren't they. Knew they had a use!
I'm well in the system here, paying 7 times the Health insurace I ever paid in the UK (UK fees included), I would be worried.
'Pissing on the chips.' is a phrase that comes to mind. For all those dreaming, from all corners of the world. But it is a popular Nationalist view. I've seen the gleam in their eyes. However, it could all well be just hot air. Mesic doing a Prince Charles. Keep reading the papers. Try and find the truth.
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Post by SK on Aug 31, 2004 4:46:28 GMT 1
This is all speculative, but would foreigners include foreign-owned companies owing land??? Or is the prez cool with them?
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Post by Crazy Horse on Sept 1, 2004 9:36:38 GMT 1
Robert
So, not allowing foreigners to buy any part of land is considered hard nationalism?
Why?
In my opinion, If we want to be a prt of EU some day (I'm not very keen on that), we should allow foreigners to have all rights we have in their countries, but:
Why would we allow for anyone to buy our land? Croat people are poor and it's nor really fair to put them in same market as rich foreigners. Besides, 90% of non Croats who buy property only do it to make profit, not for vacation or living.
I think the ones wanting to live here should be allowed to buy, but I wouldn't allow just anyone to buy entire coast and make a good profit just because he doesn't have competition here, due to economic situation of croat folks.
I certainly wouldn't allow birtish people to buy anything here as long as I have to have a visa for a simple tourist visit to London. Am I a threat to England? If so, then all Brits are a threat to my contry and they shouldn't be able to buy anything here until things get sorted out.
Talk about nationalism....
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Post by alsdoubles on Sept 1, 2004 21:56:55 GMT 1
Crazy Horse talks good sense. But if you talked similarly in the UK you may be in danger of upsetting someone, legally, via the 'pc' situation.
Course this type of talk is experienced and aired in every pub throughout the land, in the UK. In Croatia too, possibly. Well, most certainly. I've heard it.
Upsetting people is something dear to my heart. People. All kinds of people. Some will not be...upset. In the UK many people are afraid of what the UK now is. And will be in years to come. So they look for a civilised elswhere, where they might live a quieter life. A quieter life. Savour these words. I live this quieter life in Croatia, even up against this crazy system for aliens. The UK could learn a lot from Croatia. Europe possibly also, could learn a lot from Croatia. Maybe. I would urge anyone to explore the system. Come here and contribute, and join the system. How long is a lifetime? How much future is ahead? How much do you care about investment? President Mesic's views need clarifying. So we (foreigners), all know where they stand. That would be worthwhile.
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Post by Aljosa on Sept 2, 2004 11:39:02 GMT 1
I had to wait 4 years before I could by land here as I needed to become a resident. Am I not correct but is this not prejudice ??
The croatian goverment is just trying to save the country by being exploited.
A rule should be imposed that you can not buy a house and sell it within 10 years,
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Post by Culchie on Sept 2, 2004 12:02:43 GMT 1
That is a very good idea Aljosa
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Post by Embridge on Sept 2, 2004 13:23:46 GMT 1
We need to be careful reciprocity means many things. Many Croatians have property in UK. Are we propsing the same rules for them as for British buying in Croatia.
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Post by Culchie on Sept 2, 2004 13:47:27 GMT 1
Hi Embridge,
As far as I know, planning permissions are granted by the respective local authorities in the UK, and they each have different rules and criteria (It is the case in Ireland anyway).
Some authorities are beginning to only issue planning permission to people if they are from the local area and on condition that the property cannot be sold on within 5 years. Different authorities have different criteria, it's hard to know where you stand with regard to Planning Legislation.
So, if different planning authorities within the one country can operate like this, I doubt whether it would contravene any reciprocity agreement between different countries.
I'd say it would be impossible to directly outlaw a 'foreigner' from purchasing a Croatian property under any reciprocity agreement, but I see plenty of scope for the different planning authorities to be very selective of who is allowed, by simply drawing up their own list of criteria they need to be met.
e.g A 5 or 10 year no sell rule ??
Interesting Thread.
Culchie
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Post by Realistic Pole on Sept 2, 2004 13:56:39 GMT 1
Dear All,
As you are all aware, Croatia is going to join the EU quite soon (perhaps 2008) - Mesic or no Mesic. The new EU entrants, such as Poland, Czech Republic, and Slovenia, were all very anxious about Germans and Italians (in the case of Slovenia) coming to those countries, bordering Germany and Italy, and buying out all property available.
This was a very sensitive political issue since parts of all three were either owned or occupied by the Germans (Poland and Czech) or Italians (Slovenia) for large portions of the 20th century.
However, all EU members are under an obligation to allow people from other EU countries to buy property. In the sensitive cases of Poland, Czech Republic, and Slovenia, to avoid nationalistic backlash, the governments negotiated with the EU transitional periods (depending on the type of property and country) during which buyers from old EU cannot buy the properties. The most sensitive, of course, were properties with land. But in ALL cases, the new EU members will scrap the restrictions after the negotiated period has finished.
If Croatia is seriously going to consider entering the EU, all it can do is negotiate a transition period. But NO ONE during the EU accession negotiations will let Croatia forbid permanently property purchases by other EU nationals. After all, although it is difficult for Croats to imagine that that day will come, they could want to buy that house on the French Riviera one day. (Please don't tell me you never would).
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Post by Culchie on Sept 2, 2004 14:15:55 GMT 1
Hi Realistic Pole,
I don't think that is being suggested.
However, Local Planning Authorities presently make decisions (in existing EU countries) based on their individual findings, and demand that applicants meet these requirements or 'provisions'....otherwise the planning permission is not approved.
In some cases one of these provisions is that planning permission will only be granted, if the property is not sold on within X amount of years. (It currently happens in some areas of the West of Ireland)
So, as long as the approval/rejection of planning permission rests with the different local authorities, then the decision making process (and conditions attached) are also open to being 'tailored' to suit each local authority area.
So whilst in theory anyone is entitled to buy, in practice the reality has the potential to be very different.
Culchie
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Post by Realistic Pole on Sept 2, 2004 14:58:00 GMT 1
Dear Culchie:
I was more concerned with foreigners' ability to buy existing properties - cases which do not require planning permission (unless you plan to significantly alter the property). I am all for strict planning permission - you have seen Benidorm, haven't you?
The general point was that the very idea of foreign people living in Croatia is becoming a political issue. There are lots of colorful politicians all across Europe and they do find a fertile ground for their divisive views here and there. The same politicians' views may be a source of deep embarassment to other people in the same country.
What is important is that people planning to come to live in Croatia have a realistic view of how Croatia is going to develop in the future. It will benefit from becoming a member of the EU and it will have to accommodate the Union directives into its legal system, property laws included. Although it may seem important to many of us what Mesic said, he is only playing to a particular segment of Croatian society.
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