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Post by Madgolfer on Nov 4, 2005 13:15:20 GMT 1
Here is a story you might find funny, depending on your perspective! To put a new roof on an old house; 1) Prices given to our friends (Croats) ranged between 3900Euros and 5200Euros. 2) Prices given to us (Brits) ranged between 6500Euros and 14000Euros!!!!!!!! Same house, same roof and two of the quotes even came from the same builders. Stupid or what! Thankfully we have Croatian friends here and some knowledge of the building game. We expected some increase in price, being foreign, but WOW......
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Post by davidzg on Nov 4, 2005 13:32:17 GMT 1
Here is a story you might find funny, depending on your perspective! To put a new roof on an old house; 1) Prices given to our friends (Croats) ranged between 3900Euros and 5200Euros. 2) Prices given to us (Brits) ranged between 6500Euros and 14000Euros!!!!!!!! Same house, same roof and two of the quotes even came from the same builders. Stupid or what! Thankfully we have Croatian friends here and some knowledge of the building game. We expected some increase in price, being foreign, but WOW...... Welcome to Croatia my friend, it is an interesting ride. Just treat everybody that you give money to like he/she is about to try rip you off and you'll be OK. Always get a lot of quotes and always lie about the price you have been offered a service for, because the price in Croatia is not a true price based on overheards, labour etc, the price is exactly how much they think you can afford to pay. Finally never EVER be nice to somebody that is working for you in Croatia, NEVER trust me, I was warned about that and didn't head the advice.
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Post by noddy on Nov 4, 2005 16:58:16 GMT 1
madgolfer, i don't find it funny. i think it's really sad and unfair. and i mostly agree with your post, david.
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Post by Madgolfer on Nov 4, 2005 17:49:42 GMT 1
To never Ever be nice/trust anyone is a sad reflection on the reality of life in Croatia, but I must agree with your comments David. Our neighbours, freinds and the like here are some of the warmest and most welcoming people we have met and we have lived in other countries.
Those who have come to do work for us have a different agenda it seems. Nice on the surface/to your face and out to rip you off for every last lipa they can get from you when you are not looking. What a sad reflection on certain types of Croatians. But the same applies in many other countries, so why should here be any different.
We are our own worst enemy though. We come here with what appears to Croatians like buckets full of cash, buying up properties everywhere as holiday/second homes. No wonder they all think we are all loaded. The less well advised deserve everthing they get!!!!
I am less convinced by your "never be nice" to workmen approach though. Surely you can still adopt a freindly attitude to your workforce while remaining cautious with the cash.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 4, 2005 18:10:07 GMT 1
To never Ever be nice/trust anyone is a sad reflection on the reality of life in Croatia, but I must agree with your comments David. Our neighbours, freinds and the like here are some of the warmest and most welcoming people we have met and we have lived in other countries. Those who have come to do work for us have a different agenda it seems. Nice on the surface/to your face and out to rip you off for every last lipa they can get from you when you are not looking. What a sad reflection on certain types of Croatians. But the same applies in many other countries, so why should here be any different. We are our own worst enemy though. We come here with what appears to Croatians like buckets full of cash, buying up properties everywhere as holiday/second homes. No wonder they all think we are all loaded. The less well advised deserve everthing they get!!!! I am less convinced by your "never be nice" to workmen approach though. Surely you can still adopt a freindly attitude to your workforce while remaining cautious with the cash. Anybody that offers you a service wants to build up a rapport with you, that way you will feel bad complaining, asking for discount etc. In England we have bad workmen too, but we don't have the systematic approach of trying to be your best friend and then messing you around, but because he is your newest buddy you feel bad about complaining.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 4, 2005 18:13:23 GMT 1
Sorry to butt in chaps, but I have had lots of quotes and work carried out, different builders similar quotes, and everyone at a great rate. In my experience 99% of the tradesmen think that if you have a couple of quid in your pocket, then you will have more work for them and if they are reliable and reasonably priced, they'll be the first one you call for the next job. I don't know where you all live but I must stand up for the Croatian Tradesman in North Dalmatia that we have dealt with, and I can only say that if they worked abroad, they would be a credit to their country! Sorry Mark, what you say is probably 100% your impression, but anybody that rents or sells properties in Croatia has an agenda and personally I find it hard to believe their opinions are really what they think.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 4, 2005 18:45:53 GMT 1
INCORRECT! the majority of this work was conducted on my own property...and to be quite frank, I am sick and tired of hearing down trodden ex-pats moaning constantly, if you don't like it here...... Blah Blah, don't tell them to truth blah blah. I didn't say I didn't like living in Croatia, there are many things I like about Croatia. This guy told us of his story, a very normal story and I agreed with him, foreigners are often ripped off here, but not just by workmen also by people charging over inflated prices for property and pretending things are much better than they are. I'm just honest, I have no agenda. It doesn't matter to me if people like or dislike Croatia.
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Post by gmh on Nov 4, 2005 20:15:41 GMT 1
I think you will find that in every country a builder will charge a different price for someone he perceives as rich and for someone he perceives as not so rich. It's certainly that way in Australia. It's also like that in many other service providing industries. Even I would charge a different price for a corporate gig and a community street festival. Because I know that the corporate gig has more money to spend, and won't mind spending it. It's wrong that most people here will assume that the foreigner is rich, but I can see why they do. A rule of thumb is that the labour cost should be around about the same as the material costs. If you have any idea as to how your roof is constructed, you should be able to price the materials yourself.
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 4, 2005 20:31:37 GMT 1
My experience with builders in UK is not too favourable. My wife worked for the largest loss adjuster firm McLarens in UK. They recommended a builder to renovate two fishermans cottages we knocked into one. The builder had the most fantastic glossy brochure claiming to be one of UK's most experienced and competent builders in restroring grade 2 listed buildings. The only good job associated with this builder was the printer of the brochure. The work was so substandard that it cost us 25.000 pounds to put right, using local builders. We had no comeback, since the builder just went bankrupt and had no assets or monies to refund us for his substandard work. I here blame myself for paying him too much in advance, but it just goes to show that it happens all over. In fact Britain is one of the worst places regarding "cowboys". A good friend of mine who is a solicitor told me that legislations against such practices was almost none existent in the UK as opposed to the continent and Scandinavia. You only need to see TV progammes like "Builders from hell" in UK to understand the extent of the problem there. Needless to say that the builder who caused my wife and myself such heartache is still legally trading under another name. Here in Croatia I have had no problems, the standard of stone work, ceramics, porcelain etc has been of the highest standard and the prices just a fraction of UK prices. I'm sure there is "cowboys" in Croatia too, but if you got Croatian friends and good neigbours, they'll protect you from such experiences. One with good experiences. Jan
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Post by ROG on Nov 4, 2005 21:10:54 GMT 1
wow ... Jan ... ? Aren't all "Western Europeans(TM)" saints by birth ? I just refuse to believe in what you just said. Let's stay on subject and keep ranting on Croatians, just ignoring Jan (he must be some "undercover Croatian"), like decent civilized people. I am in really cooperative mood today, bless me
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Post by noddy on Nov 4, 2005 21:42:15 GMT 1
my experience with different kinds of workmen (but not builders) is not too good. they do not respect my time, they come and go as they please, you need to oversee everything they do in order to have it done properly.... and they are prone to charge for things they haven't done, so you have to check everything they do.
it's human nature, i suppose.
(and i'm not a foreigner)
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Post by mambo on Nov 5, 2005 3:29:23 GMT 1
The sad story is that it is not only in the building sector, it is everywhere. If a local calls for a price quote you can count on a reasonable price. As soon as a foreigner calls the price automatically goes times two, sometimes three. It is the sad reality and it happened to me again today.
Yesterday I had a Croatian check the price for some work on my car, price was quoted as 1000 Kuna. The car was also brought to the mechanic by a Croatian, but unfortunately the car has a foreign license plate. The price immediately went up from 1000 Kuna to 3500 Kuna, in one second and without blinking an eye. The car is now with me again, have to find a different mechanic to do the job.
This kind of attitude is really starting to piss me off, but I return the favor to them as well. If they first gave a quote and made it higher because our d.o.o. is owned by a foreign company they can come and perform the job for the company, but we will only pay the first quote, not the second quote. And if they make problems................have fun in court. There is a long list of angry people who tried to rip us off, but we can play their game as well.
I am only not going to do it with my car, because you don't get the car back unless you pay.
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Post by z00ey on Nov 5, 2005 10:29:53 GMT 1
mambo, even when the price triples for foreigners (as you say it does, i had a foreign registered car and it never ever had a different pricing), it STILL IS CHEAPER than in UK, so STFU
this goes even more for building contractors...
all of you do stuff without proper planning and "troskovnik" (cost estimate, made on a project plan). so, the workers double their price estimating the work to be done and possible problems... it's called putting price "iz rukava" (out of your sleave...
well, either you or the workman will be ripped off by doing this... he's just taking care that it's not him
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Post by mambo on Nov 5, 2005 13:26:52 GMT 1
Zooey, What the F*** do I have to do with prices in the UK I live here, we have our company here, a Croatian d.o.o. and prices should be the same for everyone. The sad reality is that many people over here think: 'ah, it is a foreigner, he must have a lot of money, so I will charge double or triple the amount'. It has zilch to do with proper planning, it has zilch to do with only happening to others and not to you. And why will it be the workman or us who is going to get ripped off ? Ever heard of paying a normal fee for work that is actually done ? Why does it always have to be a position of distrust ? Not all companies work like this, some are actually able to give you the hourly fee, the estimate of the hours that they will be working, prices of the materials etc. So it is possible, but unfortunately the majority of the workers have something else in mind.
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Charles
Full Member
www.aplaceindalmatia.com
Posts: 75
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Post by Charles on Nov 5, 2005 14:18:11 GMT 1
Want to know the secret? Incentivise a recommended Croatian builder to be your project manager. He will do all the negotiating on the contracts. If he organises 5 quotes, go through them minutely (get a translation), get him to explain how numbers are arrived at and then give him 10% of any discounts he achieves in labour and materials. This works - in essence this is how we did our house and aligns your interests with theirs + means contractors don't take liberties as they're dealing with an experienced Croatian builder. If possible, at the initial quote stage, try to ensure that the contractors aren't aware of the ultimate client. Not easy but worth trying. Finally, make sure that your Bill of Quantities from your architect gives an exact specification of materials and finish - makes the quotes easily comparable. Break the whole job down into discrete parts so that different contractors can be hired to do different jobs eg plumbing, electrics, carpentry etc.
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