How costly is renovation?

[londonhack]

I did try and post this earlier - but can't see it on board. So here goes again.....
A friend and I want to buy in Istria. We have seen a beautifully renovated apartment but have been told by locals (and foreign expats that the price is way too high.On the other hand it is ready to move in.

We have also seen a sound one-bed property which needs minor-middle renovation. Ideally would like to expose ceiling beams, put new kitchen in, redecorate. How expensive would this be? We know we will pay a premium for being foreigners. But how much? What I am concerned about is that we are two women, don't speak the language, and have full time jobs in england which means we can't spend a lot of time sorting out builders.

Are there people we can pay to project manage who would be able to sort everything out for us. Or are we being unrealistic and would be be taking on a potential nightmare?

Interested in your views. Thanks.

[dundonald]

At the end of the day you must trust your own judgement, do your own research.
Have alook at www.villasforum.com/en/realestate/30/ No connection, just a cracking Istrian web site.

[londonhack]

thanks for that - had a quick look....it all looks horribly expensive AND there's no prices!!!

[atavus]

Londonhack, I know it is hard when you have a dream but I would strongly recommend renting for a few months get a feel for a place, get a few local contacts you will save 1000's, plus you will get the chance to see all the properties aimed at locals without a foreigner premium.

I don't get ripped off here anymore because I see it coming, but I did when I first came here.

[londonhack]

thanks Atavus - the problem is to pay for my dream i have to work very long hours over here! So unfortunately I can't take months (or even weeks off). I know you are right though - when you do a bit of digging you realise that these places have been on the market for months and are just waiting for non-clued up tourists like me and my friend to buy them. They may get lucky, but since returning yesterday and looking at more websites I realise that I need to keep on looking. I can't blaming locals wanting to try and hold out for a top price for a foreigner like myself (hell, in their position I would too!) Would be interested in your experience. feel free to reply or pm me.
cheers

[egk]

Dear Londonhack,

It is quite difficult to answer how much a renovation should be. You can look at the euros per meter it costs to buy and to renovate. On the other hand, can you accurately price the nerves and the stress of working in a foreign country, with everybody you deal with thinking you are made of gold but know nothing of how things should be done "their way"?

You can say that a meter of old property for total renovation in central Dalmatia (I know, Istria is obviously a different planet, as everyone never fails to point out to me) should cost between EUR 900 and EUR 1200 if you want to be by the sea. Then you can add approx. EUR 500 for your renovation (I'm talking heavy duty - walls replaced/moved, same for floors, all new wiring/plumbing, etc.). In addition, you get the priceless experience of working with foreign builders - same aggravation as at home plus foreign language/culture, etc.

Additionally, there are now more and more regulations, some quite straightforward, some with lots of interpretation, that will guide your local officials (and friendly neighbors) to visit your site to make sure that you're not putting big slabs of cement on your 17th century stonehouse.

Finally, there is time. Some permits may take up to six months to get - if you're trying to get them from abroad, good luck. Things don't happen unless you're here. That said, Croatia is not any different in this respect from Spain or Italy. Once you have secured all your permits (and treated your neighbors to enough Swiss chocolate and foreign booze), you may actually want to start to renovate your property.

As things don't happen here unless you're here (see above), you may find that your project is moving at a different speed than you expected - not to mention the fact that the builders have the habit of overriding your decisions on anything from layout, choice of materials, to the direction the doors open. As a woman, you always have the option of flying in, having a nervous breakdown or a screaming fit in front of your house, or finding out that tears work. I did.

In addition to the actual time to complete the project, you have the completely separate issue of managing your time. Be prepared for many situations where you decide that the only way you can accomplish something is to actually fly here and spend all the time necessary to see a particular thing accomplished - like getting the carpentry finished, delivered and installed.

Having said all that, what I can recommend from experience, is to look for a finished property. The one you saw obviously had a built-in premium. However, as you do more research, you will definitely discover that there are more and more properties coming onto the market and some of them are actually renovated in a way you may like. There is nothing, though, that can substitute for the investment of time.

Finally, your idea of getting somebody to manage a renovation project has both positives and negatives. You need to look at it though in the same way as if you were hiring a building contractor. You are dealing with an unknown quantity and relinquishing control - for quite a hefty fee, usually. And since many times the project manager is nothing more than a glorified go-between between you and the builders, you may end up spending a lot of time managing the project manager and the builders.

I am looking now for a bigger house. Having gone through the experience of renovating here, I am seriously looking into finding good renovations. At least I know that time, gray hair and tears are priceless.

Hope this is somewhat helpful.

EGK

[Knedla]

atavus said:

Londonhack, I know it is hard when you have a dream but I would strongly recommend renting for a few months get a feel for a place, get a few local contacts you will save 1000's, plus you will get the chance to see all the properties aimed at locals without a foreigner premium.

I don't get ripped off here anymore because I see it coming, but I did when I first came here.

I agree. Rent for a few months in different locations to see what you like or don't like.

If you do decide to stay. Stay by renting for a bit and getting your feel for how things work. It would be heartbreaking to just come over and make a rush, rush decision on a big investment only to realize you were ripped off.

When you decide to stay here, take your time, try to learn a bit of the language, make contacts like atavus said and then go from there.

Good-Luck Ladies

[atavus]

In your position then I would find a foreign agent you trust who will act only in your interests, make sure the same agent isn't working for both sides.
I know a guy that can be trusted, he is in Zagreb, but he probably has contacts up there, if you want his details let me know.

[Knedla]

You actually don't need an agent if you feel confident enough to do the documents yourself with the help of an attorney.

To me agents are more interested in their % than your needs. The higher the price, the bigger the commission, do you honestly think they are going to try to get the best price for you.

I think if you can get an attorney it is better. I have heard that many foreigners have done this and have been quite happy with the results.

I think the majority of agents are greedy rats, especially the foreigners taking victim on foreigners because they know that instinctively that a person from the same country will feel more comfortable dealing with someone from the same country. People get victimized all the time this way, very sad.

[jill]

We are just finishing a restoration after having gutted and renovated 200 square mts on two floors 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms, kitchen, all new plumbing/ wiring/heating/ wood floors/ to a very high standard and we reckon we'll have change from Euro 90,000. We think that's fantastic compared to prices where we currently live in Italy. If you pm me I can give you details.

[londonhack]

thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond in so much details. You've been very helpful. Jill I will definitely IM you - at work now so cannot do so at the moment. I'm back in croatia looking at places in august and I will keep you posted.

[Knedla]

Has anyone ever built a garage?

Just a simple 2 car garage with a bit of workspace and an area for extra storage, tools and such.

How much do you think that will run? We are not capable of doing any of the work ourselves. We have no experience. We had some work done on our apt in the city and we were totally ripped off. What we thought was a good deal was actually not that good. Everyone told us we over-paid.

This time I want to get some other opinions than our relatives and friends who think we get ripped off every time we do something. They always act like we did it all wrong. I just want to have a different opinion than theirs for once.

The garage will be built in a coastal town. We want it to match the home, so I want it to be stone.

Just a rough estimate of what you would think it would cost?

ThanXs

[z00ey]

knedla,
the price depends on 2 finishes: what type of stonework (quality and roughness of the stone) and of the type of roof (concrete or wood beams covered with kupa kanalica)

still, you should talk about 300-350€ per square meter