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Post by londonhack on Aug 29, 2006 13:23:48 GMT 1
thanks for the advice Jill - to be honest am not convinced about buying anywhere abroad at the moment, though the friend I am going to italy with is determined to have her place in the sun. I'll go and have a look round with her but i will probably end up buying a second place by the coast here - and go for nice holidays. Don't fancy bulgaria - but after reading about all the red tape and pitfalls in croatia I've really gone off buying there. It's cheaper just to go for long weekends and stay in hotels now and again.
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Post by ambrose on Aug 29, 2006 14:11:39 GMT 1
Don't be a whimp! forget about Istra or Split if its too pricey, there's a whole country out here and still places with affordable houses, sea, lakes, rivers etc. All the stuff you read about pitfalls and red tape can be true if you are an idiot and dont have a good lawyer / agent ...RESEARCH!! my dear. Dont be put off by 3 or 4 English voices of doom on a website, if you buy here and do it right. You'll be never look back!
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Post by hvarlavendar on Aug 29, 2006 19:11:02 GMT 1
What does having to be a Croat have to do with making a killing. Ohhh I guess the Brits are giving discounts on their property because they like the person buying their home. Ohhh and Americans are selling their beach front properties for half price because they don't want to look like they are trying to make a killing. ARE YOU KIDDING!!! Everyone wants to make as much money as they possibly can when selling their property! Anyone that Say's that statement is not true, is a liar or lacking in the membrane. And yes it is supply and demand or else we would not be seeing these prices nor would you see these high sold prices. Your ex-commy remark is just ridiculous. Hvar, unless you haven't noticed, this is about Croatia and why it is so pricey. Comparing to other countries is redundant as this is, again, a discussion on why Croatian property is so ridiculously overpriced. With so little in the way of services ouside of lying on a beach, eating rejected prsut and getting charged ˆ6 for a coffee, property prices have little to do with reality and more to do with locals perceived value. So many properties are on the market for years as the locals don't truly wish to sell, they put out ridiculous prices and then when someone who is willing to shell out the money arrives, suddenly the price goes up, after the pre-contract has been signed. Our lovely indeed! The comment was needed because valiant gives the impression that it is only Croatians that want to make a killing in property sales. Everyone with a right mind wants to make a killing on their investments. The price of a home is determined by the buyer. If the buyer sets a very high price, well that is the buyers choice. He can sit on his property 100 years if he wants. Seller's don't have to buy. Obviously someone is buying these properties. I also seriously doubt you can get such a great deal in other countries without something being a miss. Croatia is still a good deal. It is a beautiful, clean, low crime, and peaceful place. Anyone would be making a good step in purchasing in Croatia. Hey, anyone ever seen the price of beach front property in the USA. My gosh the only people that can afford the coast there are movie stars and the likes. Parts of the Italian coast are reserved for only the super wealthy. Many countries coast is not even on the same quality level as Croatian coast but the prices are out of this world and make Croatian coast properties look down right cheap. The average Joe can still afford Croatia. I have seen many places priced at $150,000 Euro, especially new little apt's.
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Post by hvarlavendar on Aug 29, 2006 19:12:30 GMT 1
Don't be a whimp! forget about Istra or Split if its too pricey, there's a whole country out here and still places with affordable houses, sea, lakes, rivers etc. All the stuff you read about pitfalls and red tape can be true if you are an idiot and dont have a good lawyer / agent ...RESEARCH!! my dear. Dont be put off by 3 or 4 English voices of doom on a website, if you buy here and do it right. You'll be never look back! Totally agree ;D
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Post by valiant on Aug 29, 2006 20:49:03 GMT 1
irac thanks for backing me up . and hvar lander....check this out......the most expensive realestate in split is on Meje. and have you noticed that Meje is one of the very few areas in split that have something that resembles a footpath and decent stret lighting by the street sides????shouldnt that be standard? ???everywhere' irac is absolutely correct ...croats just come up ususlly with some ridiculously inflated price and go on about a barbacue thats planned for the backyard ...etc... the economy in croatia should reflect the price of realestate but it does not!!!! i have seen a few small hotels for sale on the islands....it is like theyve figured out how much money the new owner will make renting out apartments for 2 lifetimes and that determines the price. it is unbelievable.
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Post by londonhack on Aug 30, 2006 11:49:10 GMT 1
Well I am open to any recommendations and advice as to areas I can check out - and what the prices are like. feel free to post here or PM me.
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Post by valiant on Sept 5, 2006 11:25:26 GMT 1
not only is realestate overpriced in croatia. the red tape beurocracy, the neverending paperwork that you have to pay for, the negativity from the local city council etc...etc...etc.... it turns buying buying and especially building in croatia into a huge huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugee nightmare. this country is beutiful but it sucks big time. its politicians are all as corrupt as they can be . noone will help you with any real problem. my father is going through a purchasing land and building process. what can i say other than ...it is all one big pile of beurocratic corrupt crap that leads to nothing. it is all seriously crap. believe me. we have been living here for ten years , after moving here from australia. ............ croatia is far from investor friendly. it is so far from being a normal country that it is mind boggling. as far as ma fathers building process is concerned, the local council has turned his application for building down twice and for no real reason. each time we have proven that the land is legal building land. a court case would lead to nothing, probably take years, loads of money and all for a corrupt legal system. no way. i dont know if anyone out there has any suggestions but we have asked for assistance. ive sent emails to amnesty international, matica hrvatskih isaljanika, to the people invoved with the internet gruntovnica, to globus magazine and still noone has given us any assistance. we arent alone in this nightmare building process. we know of other people from australia going through similar or worse things. we even built a house near split when we moved here in 1999 . it was also a huge mind bogglijng nightmare. the people in the local opcina in kastela were sooooooooooo rude, basically liars, arrogant, unbelievable ....they obviously wanted money so as to knock our house down. we were told to build and that we ould get a buidling permit in 3 months, when the house was almost complete, the same people who told us to build, came to the site and were yelling and asking who told us that we could build??!"!!!!!!!!! we managed to get electro dalmacija to eventually connect electricity for 10.000 kunas, they were initally asking for 30.000 kunas for a connection on "the black ". but we had no alternative and as all in croatia is scummy , bastardry and corruption, we had no choice. this country is one huge f ing joke. our family is nowhere, all over croatia, and any day now we will probably be packing our bags for australia again.
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Post by valiant on Sept 7, 2006 14:11:04 GMT 1
firstly...im from australia, and not canada. secondly....i have had a building experience in croatia ...CORRUPTION all over ! thridly....i have had two attempts at opening a business here in croatia...first attempt gave me a good insight into the bastardry and corruption invovled in opening certain businesses in croatia and the connections you need to do so. even plain jelousy is a factor. now we are again trying to purchase land and build legaly...again ...corruption and beurocracy going hand in hand . stopping us . if the word corruption irritates you than you should move out of the country. im going to keep on critisizing corruption in croatia because it is absolutely huge here and it goes hand in hand with beurocracy. ive come to the stage where i almost throw up when i here the rustling of papers and stamping going on. my mother in law is currently in the process of opening a small business....today we were all gathered around , putting our minds together in an attempt to deciphere the questionaires which are required to be filled in. we all have above avreage iq and have come to the conclusion that the forms were either designed to be complicated or just plain stupid or that they were designed by some completely incompetnt people . in either case...the people in the local zupanija should assist my mother in law to fill in the questionaires and deal with the truck loads of other relatedpaperwork...which is by the way interpreted in different ways by different people working in the zupanija office. so figure it out. ambrose i know of people who were still uni students in croatia when my family and i were trying to open businesses and build a house. they were telling us that we must be doing something wrong !!! today...these people have completed their uni studies and only now...when theyve been hit in the face with the croatian version of the real world..do they know that they are up shi. creek. one cousin who was telling me to build apartments and sell them is today telling me that you cant do that without connections. haha. reality hitting home. and ambrose i am not posting rubbish. i am posting reality. real experiences. you must be in denial . croatia is absolutely saturated incorruption. it is traditional. it is a way of life here. and i dont get why it is so hard for you to admit this. croatia is a post commy country. remember...party members, udba....the same people are working in the sme pllaces and the mentality is still there . ive read numerous reports in globus and nacional magazine about successfull foreign investors who have invested in amlost all eastern and sthe eastern european countries, and they are still holding back from investing in croatia . they criticise corruption in croatia, the negativity towards investment ventures of any kind, the beurocracy etc, etc... what the hell does sanader or anyother politician have being connected to investment activity in croatia'??'' i have never seen some foreign president or prime minister hanging out at huge bridge and road projects ...signing deals and sticking their noses in all huge business deals. you only see that sort of behaviour in films about colombia and other ify republics etc..
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egk
New Member
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Post by egk on Sept 7, 2006 15:06:40 GMT 1
Normally I don't jump into these debates, but this one I couldn't resist, so here goes.
My husband and I have developed houses in both Poland and Croatia. Poland 10 years ago (and in some ways still is) was very much like Croatia is today. Mind-boggling corruption and bureaucracy, bribes, you name it - I've seen it! We've successfully managed to buy four houses in Croatia, and sold two of them (according to plan) this summer. We've even managed to get some financing, though it was very difficult, and I wouldn't recommend it as a way of going about purchasing properties in Croatia.
My point is that everything that Valiant says is/can be true - but the thing to remember (in my experience at least), is that it can all be overcome. Persistance, patience, any connections that could be useful, friendliness and even a sense of humour when it all seems to be going terribly wrong are definitely the traits you need if you're going to live in peace in Croatia.
Valiant, it will change. Maybe not fast enough for your liking, but it will. I know I've said it on this board before, but it is inevitable. I saw the worst side of banking/real estate/bureaucracy when I bought my first flat in Warsaw 9 years ago, and then again when I sold it. All these countries have the same vestiges of Commie behaviors and institutions - it was even worse in Poland than it was in Croatia. The trick is not to fight it (yes you can complain, and I do!) if you need to get something done. Is your goal to change the world (not a bad idea, but not so practical for your short term goals and needs), or get your house built?
You can always leave as others have said, but I'm guessing you have too much invested at this point to just turn around and bolt. Yes, it is easier to do business in Spain or even France... but where do you want to live? I've invested in Spain and Florida, and almost bought something in South of France. But I would choose Croatia any day, despite the numerous headaches, setbacks, and inefficiencies (and no, I don't work for the Croatian National Tourist Board, it's just my personal preference.)
To those potential investors out there, don't be put off by the negative posts - it can be done. It's a developing market with all the frustrations as well as the opportunities you would expect to find.
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Post by theoneandonly on Sept 7, 2006 16:56:09 GMT 1
Mmmm... Now someone tell me why I should pay, say, 50 euros per sq. metre for building land when all it takes is for the council to put a notice up on the village noticeboard, preferably in the winter, when I am not there, to change it from building to agricultural, thereby rendering my 50 euros a metre practically worthless? Surely there is something wrong with the law that allows this to happen??? I asked a Croatian lawyer, and he said it was MY duty as the owner to make sure I am informed (by popping over every week to check the noticeboard?) NOT the council's duty to inform me as the foreign or absentee owner... Go figure. And Croatia wants to enter the European Union?
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Post by Madgolfer on Sept 9, 2006 17:45:51 GMT 1
Try looking inland. There are still many inexpensive properties around Zagreb, but prices are moving up quickly. The attitude of most sellers is still "realistic" and they are prepared to sell to foreigners at the same prices they would expect to acheive from fellow Croats. How long this will last is anyones guess. www.inlandcroatia.com
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Post by mambo on Sept 11, 2006 15:23:25 GMT 1
Loj,
I enjoy Croatia a lot, was in Korcula last week and arriving there by boat from Drvenik brings you in between Peljesac and Korcula, one of the most beautiful sights ever. The view that we had from our apartment was simply spectacular, I was sitting on the terrace at night and simply admiring the view for a few hours with a glass of wine. Also the island of Murter, Primosten, Rocogniza, Tribunj and other locations are beautiful to spend some time and I sincerely like that a lot. In fact, when I see places like that and compare that to what Istria has to offer I cannot figure out why anyone would want to be in Istria at all. It was the beginning of September, in Istria everybody is more or less closing down the business (although there are still a lot of tourists !), but in Primosten they still have every night different entertainment in the city. That place simply looked alive instead of completely dead like Porec, Cervar, Novigrad, Umag etc.
But all the beauty the country has to offer should not make you close your eyes to reality. In Korcula we paid for an apartment 35 euro per night and had a one in a million view. In Istria you will not be able to find anything for 35 euro, you can start around 50 to 60 euro and if you are lucky the bed is not yet broken down. You can of course say that this has everything to do with the workings of the market, but that is not the case, we have overcapacity in Istria, but people simply say that they cannot rent a room or apartment for less than 50 euro...........is too much work for them.
Being a tourist in a country is of course one thing, but actually working, living and dealing with the local goverment is another and I bet that not a lot of you (Loj, Slatkica etc) have ever done that or will do that on a regular basis.
What has happened in Motovun is what I call 'highway robbery by the goverment', it is a disgrace, but it simply happens. Local politicians in this country ending up with the best pieces of land for 5 euro/m2 in the center of e.g. Porec is another disgrace. Inspectors telling you that you will never get permission unless you pay them is also a disgrace. A lawyer, a notary, the director of Sokol Maric arrested for organized crime is a disgrace. The major of Zagreb buying a 760,000 euro apartment and not being able to explain where the money came from is also a disgrace. An oil company like OMV being blocked from opening up a multi million dollar investment in Novigrad because of some jealous (read: they did not pay the man enough) politician is a disgrace. Place has been ready for over a year, but the using permission is still withheld. Not being able to do normal business in the area of Split without organized crime getting involved is a disgrace (yes I know that the South of Italy is the same, but we should not justify this kind of behavior by pointing to another country).
These are just a few examples of things tourists don't see at all and they should not see it, but it does not mean it does not exist. It does exist and closing your eyes for it will not stop it or make it go away. The only way to fight corruption, illegal practices is to confront them, not to adhere to them or do the same thing.
And with regard to Istria ?
I can only say that the local goverment has no clue where to go with istria, they have no strategic plans, they have no ideas how to solve the problems, no ideas how to market this part of Croatia, they will simply benefit as long as they can and what happens afterwards is not their problem, they have their money and that is it.
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Post by londonhack on Sept 11, 2006 15:43:00 GMT 1
As for ambrose's comments that us 'westerners" (surely we are all europeans?) 'Bugger off'. Well, yes, we will. I've just returned from a week in southern italy, found a fabulous house with sea views, olive groves and 7,500 sq meters of land for less than was asked for a one-bed renovated apartment in rovinj. From what i've seen with agents in Istria, there was no comparison in the properties we were shown in Italy. Also the accomodation - and the standard - was a lot better, value-wise. Ditto the food and drink. I haven't been to other parts of Croatia, admittedly, but perhaps there's a lesson there for the croatians trying to sell to foreigners and trying to boost their tourist economy. There's no doubt I would have bought in Rovinj if I could have found the right place at the right price but I came away with the impression that property prices there were a rip-off.
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Post by jill on Sept 11, 2006 16:23:06 GMT 1
"I've just returned from a week in southern italy, found a fabulous house with sea views, olive groves and 7,500 sq meters of land for less than was asked for a one-bed renovated apartment in rovinj."
Congratulations, I'm so glad you weren't disappointed....Italy is a great place to live.
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Post by londonhack on Sept 11, 2006 16:26:35 GMT 1
Thanks for your good wishes Jill - also it's a lot easier for me to learn italian (i speak spanish already) than serbo-croat.
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