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Post by theoneandonly on Apr 27, 2007 13:23:43 GMT 1
I have a complicated problem, relating to the listings in the "katastar". Can anyone explain to me how I find out the EXACT AND UP-TO-DATE ownership of any piece of land and/or house in Istria??? It takes the Ministry anything up to three years to allow the name of a foreign owner to bge inscribed in the land registry, and I have found from personal experience that the names of people listed as owners may or may not be out of date. Say, Italians abroad who inherited houses in Istria may be listed as the owners, when in fact the house/land has been confiscated by the State. Even in "checked" registry entries... So how do I find out what the actual current state of play is for any property I may want to buy?  ? |
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Post by mambo on Apr 27, 2007 14:05:58 GMT 1
That is 'the million dollar' question I think.
I know that they are cleaning up the Katastar and also turning back the confiscations during the times of Tito. What happens then is that land is returned to the person who owned that land at that time, but most probably that person is already long dead.
9 out of 10 times the family doesn't even know that the land has been returned, so basically the land is lying there and nothing is happening.
If someone finds out that the land belonged to their grandfather, then they have to start searching for the children and if they are dead it goes down even further..............good luck. This can indeed take years and years to figure out.
And as long as not all the owners have signed for approval the land will not change hands.
Therefore, if you find land, which has multiple owners and some owners cannot be found...........just forget the land, leave it for what it is, because you may be in for quite a few surprises.
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Post by theoneandonly on Apr 27, 2007 14:32:22 GMT 1
Thanks, mambo, but that is NOT my problem!!! :-) I have found a house. According to the katastar, it is owned half by an Italian (whom I have located) and half by the "opcina". I did some research and found that the Italian had twice requested compensation (doesn't say for what property) and had it turned down. There are rumours that it has passed entirely into "opcina" hands, but I don't seem to be able to find out for certain. It doesn't seem that changes and/or application for changes are entered into the Katastar. Hence someone tried to sell me a property last year. The katastar had his name as owner. It was purely by chance that I had heard rumours about the house having been sold to some Germans, did some digging and found the legal owners, whose names didn't appear in the land book YET. Had I gone on the katastar information only, I would now be in the unenviable situaiton of suing the previous owner to try and get my money back.... Why are sales, applications for transfer and similar things not entered into the katastar? Surely that would simplify things? Also how do I find out (the opcina said it didn't have a complete list of its properties) who actually currently owns a property? |
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Post by theoneandonly on Apr 27, 2007 14:33:56 GMT 1
Another quick question, Mambo,
If the land is owned half by the private owner and half by the opcina, can I buy the half that belongs to the private owner and then request an auction???
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Post by Carol on Apr 27, 2007 14:40:20 GMT 1
the land registry is usually more up to date and is considered the definitive record of ownership (almost). So go there in person, pay the 20kn and ask for a Vlasnicki List. The VL should be up to date and the two main ways I believe it may not be are:-
1. the property has been sold to a foreigner who hasn't got permission to own yet and who did not have his name added a s a burden on the property
2. the property is owned by a croatian or the descendent of a croatian who was exceptionally sloppy about ppaerwork during the communist years.
Even today a lot of people don't bother to ensure their katastar records are correct, but most make an effort for the VL.
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Post by theoneandonly on Apr 27, 2007 14:51:23 GMT 1
Thanks!!!! I went to the katastar to look up the owners of the property (three lots, in fact) to find that they were drawn up in post-war maps as four properties (when there really are only three), that one had a duplicate number with a different property nearby and that the third one had been split into two by mistake and given two non-existent numbers!!! So I corrected the katastar for starters. Then I spent days and days locating the Italian owners and reading through official Italian newspaper notices relating to "bene abandonate" (abandoned properties), but have yet to get a VL. Maybe when I go there again in July, if it's not too late. Is it not available on the internet? I can't see how to get one from pravosudje.hr....
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Post by Carol on Apr 27, 2007 15:02:50 GMT 1
unfortunately you need to make applications in person and often you have to wait a few days, even a week before it is issued. Why don't you get a local estate agent to do it for you? Or even any friend you have in the area? isn't not complicated and doesn't take long to do, just not terrible convenient if you live in the UK (which I guess from your english you do!).
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Post by Carol on Apr 27, 2007 15:03:34 GMT 1
by the way you will need to know the katastar number(s) so that you can identify the property
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Post by theoneandonly on Apr 27, 2007 15:08:57 GMT 1
Thanks, Carol. Yep, I'm in the UK. And I most certainly DO know the numbers. :-)))) Took two days and repeated visits to the katastar, plus digging up a geodet at very short notice and dragging him to the location to confirm for me (at great expense!) what I thought -- that the "verified" documentation was actually completely wrong... The main problem may be if the land registry has the same mistakes as the katastar!!!
Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can get a friend to go get me the paperwork, and keep my fingers crossed.
Nobody has told me yet whether I can buy the privately owned half without the opcina's permission???
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raza
Junior Member
Posts: 22
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Post by raza on May 16, 2007 11:01:10 GMT 1
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Post by crogirl on Oct 17, 2007 10:16:01 GMT 1
Is there an English speaking no for this? I have called (on Wed as requested) but they don't speak English!
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Post by Slatkica on Oct 17, 2007 18:15:31 GMT 1
Is there an English speaking no for this? I have called (on Wed as requested) but they don't speak English! Crogirl are you not Croatian? |
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Post by splitska on Jan 15, 2008 1:01:25 GMT 1
Hi Carol, After three and a half years waiting for approval I've now hears word from the Ministry looking for notorised passports and some other documents relating to zoning. My lawyer has ordered the relevant documents. I am hopeful that approval should come through soon. However what is the procedure after that. Should my lawyer send the approval to the Land Registry? Any advice you have I'd be grateful. I just want to make sure my lawyer does everything he's supposed because I'm buying my partner's share and am anxious because I will have to start the whole process again to buy the other half of the property. At the moment I only own one half.
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Post by Carol on Jan 16, 2008 14:29:56 GMT 1
its your responsibility, to ensure the land registry, katastar and tax office are notified of the sale. Usually buyers delegate it to their estate agent or lawyer but don't take it for granted, so check that he intends to do it. Also, lawyers always seem to hold their noses about dealign with the tax office and many simply refuse, so make sure that this is being done for you ... if it were me I would say up front that I want proof.
Before you sign off with your lawyer make sure you have a copy of the vlasnicki list, katastar map and extract, at least one notarised copy of the contract and evidence that the three agencies listed above have been notified of the sale. plus copies of any permits or documentation gathered for the sale e.g. usage permit. All these will help a lot when and if you come to sell or generally just wnat to do anything official involving your property.
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Post by splitska on Jan 16, 2008 20:47:14 GMT 1
Thank you so much Carol, that's great advice. I'll do that. However to all those people still waiting on Ministry approval - it looks like there's hope and it does come through in the end. Maybe I'm being optimistic but I think that because they are looking for these additional documents shows things are moving along. I'll keep you posted.
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