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Post by valiant on Feb 9, 2007 11:40:03 GMT 1
my dad borught some land near split about 2 years ago. its zoned as building land. the only problem is the road that goes directly by the land. the road has many "owners" about half of them are deceased. my dad has been going to the opcina , almost every single day for 2 years, in an attempt to get a building permit. the people in the opcina are as helpful as a brick. just yesterday, the "man" in the opcina told my dad to find the owners of the road, even if they are the 9th generation of the deceased owners, and to get their signatures , so that the road can be given to the opcina. this all seem a little ridiculous to all of us. my dad went to a lawyer who told him that the opcina can post a letter on the wall in the opcina , concerning the problematic road , and if the owners dont contact the opcina after a certain period of time , having been given this public notice, then the road is automatically handed over to the opcina ...becoming public property. by the way..the road also leads to another small settlement and is frequently used by an entire neighbourhood. there are also other homes by the same road. we also know that theres some law stating that a road older than 1968 , austomatically becomes public property. but despite these "laws" and legal "advice" ..the people in the opcina are complicating matters and are far from giving my dad a building permit. so please..if someones been through something similar and or knows of a lawyer in the split area who can help my dad URGENTLY...please send me a personal message .
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Post by mambo on Feb 9, 2007 12:41:18 GMT 1
If it is public property you don't need to ask permission anymore, a road is not considered 'a party with interest'. And recently we had a case like this in Porec. A brand new apartment building with a road in front (built by the developer) was unpleasantly surprised when right in front of their window and view (there went the view of the sea) a new apartment building was constructed. The owners of the apartments objected, but the city of Porec stated that they were not involved since there was a road bordering the new property and a road has no interest in a building permission. Case was closed, building permission was given.
There is also a new law which requires local goverments to handle building permission applications within one month. If they don't abide by this law the law says that the building permission is granted. We also had to pass by each and every neighbor to ask for their permission and they could simply refuse to sign if they did not like you. In the new law they have to have real obligations against a request and no longer the 'I don't like you, therefore I will not approve attitude'.
Check the law again, since it was changed last year and the changes meant improvement, not a situation getting worse.
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Post by darcy on Feb 9, 2007 13:09:09 GMT 1
Try to find someone to talk to the people in "opcine" on a personal level, not official level. I do not know are you local to Croatia or not (I have some extended family that are Croatians and speak Croatian, so I ask them for a help)...
I understand your problem, but having experience working for year and half in Croatia and more in the countries with the similar structure in SE Asia I can only say - try to solve it involving locals and do it their way.
Private land is a private land and thanks to the forthcoming EU annexation of Croatia, no transfer of the ownership can be made unless owner agrees with.
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Post by nikh on Feb 10, 2007 0:39:32 GMT 1
I agree with Darcy, the only way we ave reslved alot of our building issues was by direct contact in the offices and a smiling face really helps. Its the same everywhere, officialdom will always knock you down but a friendly face and a Croatian speaker should open a door or two. Remember also that you would be intimidated by an upset foreign speaker so maybe the issue is the language barrier as well.I have someone in Split I use to do my running in an emergency and he might know someone that can help, pm me and i ll send you his email
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help!!!
Feb 12, 2007 15:02:33 GMT 1
Post by valiant on Feb 12, 2007 15:02:33 GMT 1
thanks all. but why is the man in the opcina then telling my dad that he has to get permission from owners of the road, even 9th generation relatives..so that the road can beciome public property??? is the guy in the opcina just being an idiot or what
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help!!!
Feb 12, 2007 15:09:05 GMT 1
Post by irac on Feb 12, 2007 15:09:05 GMT 1
If no one is being decent in the opcine, and it's a big deal, go to Zagreb or search out your local zastupnik, a lot of times it's the only way to get something done. Unless your opcine can solve it, you need to go higher.
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Post by darcy on Feb 13, 2007 9:53:43 GMT 1
Valiant,
I read your post in the following way:
You want to build a house and your shire wants to solve legal problems regarding the road (owned not by the shire (as it should be), but owned by private owners).
You have to look at this issue from both aspects - the shire's and your own. You want to capitalize on your land ownership and the shire wants help to fix their legal mess. I would not be surprised there is a court order asking the shire to actually solve the mess.
Thanks to God, nothing becomes a public property without consent of the owner. That involves appropriate payment and compensation, again thanks to God.
If you are not local, I can provide you with the details of my attorney, if you are, then you know better then we do.
Personally, I would never let you build before the issue is resolved.
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help!!!
Feb 26, 2007 21:11:35 GMT 1
Post by valiant on Feb 26, 2007 21:11:35 GMT 1
the land is classified "gradevinsko" my dad has given his share of the road to the opcina for free. there are many other houses on this same road. so logically it would seem to me, that my dads house building shouldnt bother anyone. why should the opcinas burden fall on my dads back, if the opcina has failed to settle the ownership of the road erlier? besides...there is some law stating that a road built before 1969 is public property...but for some reason, this so called law is ignored by the opcina. as far as im concerned....the opcine are buddies with the builders lobby , who build what they want and sell apartments for a ridiculous price because noone is allowed to build a house for themselves. people have no chice but to buy an aparmtnet thats been built by opcina builder investors.
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Post by darcy on Feb 27, 2007 5:33:34 GMT 1
Valiant,
- No land's title can ever be transferred without owner’s permition. (If you think that is not the case please let me know I should make a quick sale - CRO is not a country for me.) Roads can be built illegally (BTW, just to let you know, it is illegal to rob the bank as well), but the owners can still ask and demand compensation.
- If your land is classified as residential that is OK, but why should the "opcine" give you the building permit if your land does not satisfy all required conditions and regulations? There are lots of lands that are zoned as residential, but they do not satisfy all regulations and nobody is building there as yet.
- By the CRO law (imposed by the EU, of course), land ownership is recognised with up to the 30% of the total road costs.
- All local governments everywhere in the world are buddies with the developers. You can be the buddy as well, if you want. After all that is the way you are living in that part of the world, that is my impression.
- And now the real tip - did you ever apply for a building permit? Let them first reject your application in writing - (BTW, the "Opcine" have nothing to do with the building permits), if you do not like it, go to court.
I know all this because I have my problem of my own: An Opcine subsidiary did not build the road properly (as well as illegally, but that looks OK in CRO) and made damage to a property. The subsidiary does not exist any longer and the road is still owned by the private owners. I can sue the owners of the road. I cannot sue the Opcine. I am waiting for the private owners to get paid for the land, so I can sue the Opcine. And in a meantime I am trying to be a "buddy", but that is not easy. If you are local, you can be a buddy.
So please, do the right thing.
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mhctg
New Member
Posts: 7
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help!!!
Mar 15, 2007 21:38:43 GMT 1
Post by mhctg on Mar 15, 2007 21:38:43 GMT 1
you said many people are using that road for a long time. that most probably means they now have the legal right to use the road, depending on howlong they have been using it... they now have the right of passage over your land. even if the opcina will not pronounce it a public road, those people still have the right of passage over your land. Your dad should have checked with lawyers before buying that land.
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