|
Post by Carol on Jun 13, 2007 8:59:31 GMT 1
I agree with both of you! Nick's outline is correct, except the part about having the right contacts which is where Rijekafan is right. This does make all the difference as we now know from experience. Its good that the town hall in Rijeka tries to be helpful to attract FDI, but mid-Dalmatia is an uphill fight, although I believe doing business in the zadar region is easier because the same party has had a good majority for a long time. However, sellers do set the asking prices and buyers have the choice to either buy at that price or don't buy. Hence the reason that the number of deals bing done is falling so dramatically.
|
|
|
Post by mambo on Jun 13, 2007 21:08:27 GMT 1
I know Losinj quite well and I must say that for a 5 week season the price is really steep. If you go to Losinj now you won't find a lot of tourists and even in the beginning of July it is relatively quiet. In the autumn, winter and spring you won't find any tourists whatsoever, the locals are all tugged in and waiting for the next season. As a comparison for all the people who think the prices are reasonable and that 2000 or even 3000 euro/square meter is acceptable I have the following to think about. I was in the Caribbean last week, the island of Curacao, where they are now selling apartments on the waterfront (one of the last spots available) and the prices ranged from 900 to 1300 euro/square meter. In Bonaire a friend of mine is building a complete 'villa' park (www.regattaresidence.com) and if you take a look at those prices also there you will find a much more reasonable value. Don't forget, these two islands are outside the hurricane belt, have sun 365 days per year and the temperature is always between 28 and 35 degrees Celsius. The beaches are close by, the water is a pleasant 28 degrees, diving in Bonaire is the absolute Top and nowadays you can fly for 570 euro from Amsterdam to Bonaire or Curacao. I don't know, but if you ask me what would be a better investment.................buying in an overheated artificial 2 months season market like Croatia for 2000 - 3000 euro/square meter or for 900 euro in the Caribbean..... And still people are trying to tell me that the 2000 - 3000 euro is necessary ?
|
|
|
Post by rijekafan on Jun 14, 2007 1:30:16 GMT 1
Mambo, I dont think Losinj accom prices are higher than the other islands. Yes the season is very short. I have just bought a half share in a cruising boat the sums of which are based on a short 6 week season. I expect I can get a least 3 months of good bookings with some marketing. The local council is trying very hard to extend the season. The main problem to me is that the visitor profile is a bit old and narrow. I am told Losinj used to be a party, biker destination and that it will get its young visitors back in time. The key is to offer a better product and the market that product well. I have been hired to do the marketing for a floating hotel being converted in Losinj. This hotel is based on the former Kronprincess Ingrid a ship beloved by the Danes due to its Royal connections and history. We will be doing Japanese and organic food in the restaurant as well as a bit of Danish stodge. We are also bringing in musicians and dancers to liven up the evenings. Hopefully offering a better quality tourist product will bring the punters. Its not just us, others are trying to come up with a more varied and interesting tourist offering. Back to comparing prices. You cannot drive from Curacao to Italy for lunch as you can in Istria and Kvarner. In th case of Losinj, Venice is only a boat ride away. This position has to be worth something.
|
|
|
Post by mambo on Jun 14, 2007 15:45:05 GMT 1
The position is worth something, but I don't believe that the prices are fully driven by the fact that Venice is close by.
Losinj itself is one of my favorites, before I came to live in Porec I spent my holidays there each and every single year. We had a small house on the beach, far away from civilization, peaceful, quiet and still only 15 minutes from the city center ! The restaurant in the small marina was our destination if we would ever make it into town.
Losinj is also better prepared for the summer season, they don't sleep in the winter and start working on the roads, landscaping etc when the tourists come. If you compare that to Porec you will see a world of difference. At the moment the center of Porec is one big building pit, many of the roads are under construction and all day long you can hear the hammering of machines. Very nice if you are a tourist on a two week holiday. Is it necessary that Porec does it like this ? Not at all, they can do this all winter long, but then nothing happens. They seem to wait until the first tourists arrive and then they start working and are even surprised when tourists complain. They are also surprised that tourists don't want to come here anymore in May or June, making the season even shorter.
I still prefer Losinj, but I wonder what happened with the rent per month times 12 times 10 calculation ? All over the world that is still a pretty good way of valuing a property, but that rule does not seem to apply in Croatia.
|
|
|
Post by Aleksandra on Jun 14, 2007 22:19:42 GMT 1
At the moment the center of Porec is one big building pit, many of the roads are under construction and all day long you can hear the hammering of machines. Very nice if you are a tourist on a two week holiday. Is it necessary that Porec does it like this ? Not at all, they can do this all winter long, but then nothing happens. They seem to wait until the first tourists arrive and then they start working and are even surprised when tourists complain. Well, tomorrow should be the last day of hammering - aparently in the coastal tourist areas is forbiden to do building work after 15th of June until some time in September. Not sure though if this applies to house building work only or to roads too.
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Jun 15, 2007 7:57:48 GMT 1
this rule is another one where there is a distinction between theory and practice. Road building will continue and private construction will continue until someone reports the builder
|
|
|
Post by rijekafan on Jun 15, 2007 17:31:32 GMT 1
Its not just proximity to Venice and direct access to that huge market that helps Losinj. The population of over 8000 creates a critical mass and a far more varied economy than most islands. I do not think the town is nearly as nice as say Komiza but the culture and location are more approachable.
I was banned from working on my place in Losinj until the end of summer. The problem is not noise but the fact that I cant move materials through the centre of town in summer. I think the problem with Porec is that developers have captured the council. If the locals got politicaly organised they could better defend themselves. As for rental values, its really totaly inconsistant in my part of Croatia. For me 5% is the minimum acceptable yield. As my place in Losinj will have cost about Euro 95k after renos I will try to get around Euro 480 per month for the place which is 300 for the shopfront and 180 for the office. That seems reasonable to me but time will tell. The fact remains that to rent legaly I get taxed. to hell so its better to sell rather than hold anything for yield. One thing I noticed in Losinj was that hanging out there in the middle of winter won me lots of brownie points. Everyone loves the boat so maybe I got some kudos for being involved in that.
|
|
|
Post by mambo on Jun 16, 2007 13:30:44 GMT 1
I was in Losinj yesterday and had a lot of fun in the city center. They are building the new market, so lots of trucks on that small street and guess where they send us ? Indeed, with a truck also down that small street, complete chaos and a huge traffic jam. I don't see the market finishing soon and I also fail to see why that new market was necessary, the old one had its charms, but apparently the ground was to valuable, so it needed a three story building.
As expected there were not a lot of tourists, they won't arrive for another month and hopefully in that time they will finish a part of the road to Osor. They are working like crazy, have already finished quite a lot, but it will be chaos when the main stream of tourists will arrive.
|
|
|
Post by rijekafan on Jun 17, 2007 10:53:12 GMT 1
It seems as though there are different rules for the city than for me when it comes to summer construction work. The shopkeepers will hate it! Seems as though the Losinj council is as dumb as many others. My business partners wife is a councilor so I will ask when I get there what the stuff up was. I hope they dont build something ugly to replace the fish market.
|
|