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Post by mambo on Sept 3, 2007 11:37:06 GMT 1
Well, I agree with you about the lesson the Croatians need and I have an idea it will come sooner than they think. Porec this year in August was absolutely not busy at all. Perhaps everybody was sitting in the apartments/hotels/campgrounds, but they were definitely not out in the streets.
I also don't know if the same Italians come back to the same places. They maybe Italians, but since there are many Italians it could also be people from a different city, region etc. Knowing Italians they definitely don't go back to the same restaurant if the food was bad. They can accept bad service (they will complain about it), but they will never accept bad food. If the food was good however they will come back, even if the service is below standard.
But it are not only the Italians who are complaining. On the German Kroatien sites you read the sames comments. Many complaints about the service, how rude the Croatians are and most of all the prices. Same goes for the Dutch site on Croatia. Also there a lot of complaints about outrageous prices and poor service.
On the German sites there are now already a lot of reactions of 'Dauercamper' (the ones who stay on the campground all summer) that this has been their last summer. They have made the calculation and have come to the conclusion that they can no longer afford coming to Croatia all summer long. Some of them are now looking for apartments in Turkye and Marocco. They will give up camping all together, simply find an apartment close to an airport and fly in. Of course the fact that the weather has been bad in August now for the third year does not help, most of them left early, they gave up.
Similar posts on the Dutch sites. Some are happy with the prices, they don't care, but the majority will not come back to Istria anymore, they either go South or to a different country. To pay 2400 euro for an old apartment in Verudela for three weeks where they would pay only 400 euro not even 7 years ago for also three weeks, makes them think. They even point out that in all those years the apartment has not been painted, the shower is still leaking, a door is still broken, i.o.w. no maintenance has been done and the prices have risen with 600 %. Last year they paid 1800 euro for three weeks, this year 2400 euro for the same period. Why did they come back then ?
Because they have been doing this for over 10 years and have made friends with other 'guests' who also come there every year. It has become a tradition, but this has been their last year. They can no longer afford it and they are angry about it. They could accept if the apartment was luxurious and completely redecorated, but raising the prices like this and then not even do one single bit of maintenance pisses them off.
And all over the internet you can find similar stories. Unfortunately the locals don't read these posts and if they do they don't care.
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Post by Carol on Sept 3, 2007 13:44:18 GMT 1
Mambo what is your definition of bad weather? Last year we had a few days rain and you said bad weather. This year its been a heatwave and you say another year of bad weather.
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Post by rijekafan on Sept 3, 2007 13:53:17 GMT 1
Wow a lot to answer...
I am on Mali Losinj. This place has a long tourist history. The service is very good for Croatia and the prices are generaly reasonable. I have seen no instances of blatant profiteering like in Dalmatia. As I said the Germans, Austrians and French are very popular here and they seem to have a great time. The Germans and Austrians in particular love it here and I have heard no complaints at all. In some places the waitresses can be unsmiling but a little Croatian and a small tip always does the trick. These waitresses often have precious little to smile about but still do their job. A boat day trip to the local islands plus lunch is around 140kn. Thats amazingly cheap and the Italians asking for further discounts is an insult. You can get an apartment for 2 for 25 Euros, again this is great value and only the Italians want more. This island was part of Italy until 1956.Like everywhere else they colonised they were 3rd rate colonists. This is not surprising as they are a third rate country They act like conquistidors and resent the fact that the slavs own the place. I have met some lovely Italians here but as I said they are a rare breed here. The good ones love it here and dont complain. Everyone speaks Italian and the prices are dirt cheap compared to Italy. Also no one is charged double for sitting down, also I have not seen old food being served. . To cap it off, unlike in Italy I have yet to see outright rudeness from waiters or waitresses. A few days ago an Italian off duty cop asked a Brazilian girl on my ship if she had cocaine, she said no and he then flashed his badge. I was going to throw him overboard but the boss stopped me. They drive me crazy. Croats around here are far more civilised Re the Bosnians, they claim to have their own language and have created some special characters to prove it. As for the 69 story it is great. In Oz my female freinds talk about sex constantly and none of my male friends do. Maybe its just the freinds I have.
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Post by justapixel on Sept 3, 2007 14:15:55 GMT 1
Mambo what is your definition of bad weather? Last year we had a few days rain and you said bad weather. This year its been a heatwave and you say another year of bad weather. Last year and the year before were terrible. It was raining all august and temperatures were 15-20 °C. I went up and down the coast followed by storm clouds, showers and cold wind. Both my vacations were ruined. That much about a few days rain... This year was ok. .
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Post by justapixel on Sept 3, 2007 14:17:37 GMT 1
Re the Bosnians, they claim to have their own language and have created some special characters to prove it. What special characters? .
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Post by mambo on Sept 3, 2007 16:29:50 GMT 1
The weather has indeed changed dramatically.
Whereas in the old days summer would start in April and finish somewhere end of September (just sun, hot temperatures and warm sea water) we see a completely different picture these years.
In Istria (don't know about the South) April is mostly sunny, but there are no tourists and everything is still closed. Up until half May it remains relatively good weather and starting around 20 May the rain starts pouring down. Not just a little bit, no, it is like the floodgates have opened up. The last few years the rain will last until 20 - 25 June after which it will become extremely warm. The warm period will last all July, but as of 3 - 6 August the weather turns sour, lower temperatures (around 20 degrees, last year even 15 !), grey skies and rain almost every day and then also all day long. Of course there are parts in Istria where it does not rain all day long, but if it rains in the morning the tourists get in their car and leave. They go to Pula, Porec, Rovinj and walk around with nothing to do (because there is nothing to do when it rains).
This year was no exception, although it was a bit better than last year. Now we had 4 to 5 days of rain, then a few days good weather and then back again to rain and low temperatures.
Losinj on the other hand is a completely different story, they have a different climate there and many times when it is raining in Istria they tell me that it is blistering hot in Mali Losinj.
Split and even further South is of course completely different. If I simply look at today in Istria we had 18 to 19 degrees, lots of wind, no weather for the beach. If I then look at the weather of e.g. Hvar I see that they have sunshine and 27 degrees, almost no wind. With that kind of weather you will simply go to the beach. It is only 500 km between Split and Istria, but it is a world of difference.
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Post by mambo on Sept 3, 2007 16:40:37 GMT 1
Rijekafan,
You are making the same mistake as many Americans, Canadians and also Croatians make.
What is cheap for you does not have to be cheap for someone else ! Remember that, because it can make the difference between having tourists in your country and having nobody.
Not even 10 years ago, in fact only 6 years, you could rent almost any apartment in Mali Losinj (for two persons) for 25,000 to 30,000 lire. If you change that in euro it is 12,5 to 15 euro. Now, the same apartment, with the same (but older) furniture, all of a sudden has to cost 40 euro or 80,000 lire !
For you that may still be cheap, but if you are an Italian with a monthly net salary of maybe 800 to 1000 euro it is a world of difference.
Many people make the mistake by thinking that all Italians are filthy rich, but they could not be more wrong. Sure, there are a lot of Italians who really swim in their money and you can see that by all the Ferrari's, Porsche, Mercedes etc they are driving. But the working class people are not so good off in Italy. Job security is almost non existant and salaries are rediculously low.
With that in mind I find it more than logic that the Italians start bargaining, because here the Croatians have the strange idea that August is high season and only August is high season. So each year the Italians are punished for not being able to get a holiday in a different month.
If you would look however to e.g. Holland or Germany you will see that the holidays are spread out over the summer. The North goes in June, the middle in July and the South in August. So for the people who have their holiday in June..................June is the high season and they are rewarded by substantially lower prices.
I wish that Croatia would also finally get smart and simply make one price for the whole summer. Forget all the BS about certain weeks in the year. Season starts on 01 June and ends 31 August. The prices in June will rise a little bit and in August they can come down. Overall the net change will be nothing.
Cannot be done ?
Well, take a good look at the Caribbean, because there high season starts 14 November and lasts until 14 February. During that period all prices are identical. Perhaps only for Christmas and New Year they make special deals, but that is because it includes the parties.
Croatia should grow up and get out of the strange, non thought over pricing policies they have here.
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Post by justapixel on Sept 3, 2007 19:48:43 GMT 1
Isn't it economically logical to rise prices when demand is higher? Lower prices in low season are specifically meant to attract more tourists to come then, but still everybody flocks down to Adriatic on high season.
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Post by justapixel on Sept 3, 2007 19:51:15 GMT 1
Not even 10 years ago, in fact only 6 years, you could rent almost any apartment in Mali Losinj (for two persons) for 25,000 to 30,000 lire. If you change that in euro it is 12,5 to 15 euro. Now, the same apartment, with the same (but older) furniture, all of a sudden has to cost 40 euro or 80,000 lire ! For you that may still be cheap, but if you are an Italian with a monthly net salary of maybe 800 to 1000 euro it is a world of difference. Due to inflation, 10 years ago all prices in Croatia were twice lower, and salaries were even more. Same price growth happened in Italy, but it was mostly concentrated on Lira-Euro conversion, when they switched to Euro by erasing three digits. .
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Post by californiacro on Sept 3, 2007 20:11:22 GMT 1
Well despite having bad weather and terrible, expensive service... hmmmm Each year Croatia has more tourists. So people are pleased with what they are getting and are coming back.... no one comes back year after year to get ripped off, even if it is a tradition among friends to return to see each other year after year..... you would change the tradition and go to another place. I don't see Italians lowering their prices for tourists that are coming from countries that don't make as much as them..... that seems to be what you are asking Croatians to do. Also most people do a bit of research before they go flitting off somewhere... like how much will their money take them on vacation/holiday in Croatia... so if the prices were high that would scare them off not to come in the first place. Tourist numbers don't reflect that opinion. I don't think people that go to Beverly Hills expect to pay what the locals can afford(which is not much) nightly. You would be surprised how big a rip off a hotels can be but people still pay it. People can pay up to $2000-$10,000 a night for some hotels.... come on... it is a room with high thread count sheets and NOT worth the price tag the hotel puts on it. People still pay and as long as people will still pay... they will keep those ridiculous prices. Croatia will find out what their cap is and keep it there. If people are willing to pay it.... keep it there. If not they will lower their price.... supply & demand... is it not fair for the low budget traveler but that is how the world turns... And keeping prices uniform thru-out the season.... why should Croatians do that... other Countries raise their prices during high seasons .... example Scotland in August. Croatia has many reasons to raise prices during certain weeks during the year.... it could be for festivals they are having and so on.... There is not one country that does not raise their prices on everything when there is demand for it.... that is normal procedure in tourism and you are asking Croatians to do things differently and not profit like any other touist destination ..... Someone asked what tourists Croatians like.... I'll tell you... PAYING ONES ;D
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Post by happy on Sept 3, 2007 20:23:21 GMT 1
Someone asked what tourists Croatians like.... I'll tell you... PAYING ONES ;D
[/quote]
Italians pay, but ....... you don't like them?
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Post by californiacro on Sept 3, 2007 20:31:16 GMT 1
Someone asked what tourists Croatians like.... I'll tell you... PAYING ONES ;D Italians pay, but ....... you don't like them? [/quote] I don't care one way or another as long as they behave. I have no problems with anyone accept those who make life miserable for others or who are rude to others..... I have only had a few problems with Italians... it has always been at night and they have been loud, rude and did not care if everyone else was sleeping. They are very loud in their rooms... otherwise... I could care less if they are Italians, German or Chinese.... just shut the heck up.
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Post by mambo on Sept 3, 2007 22:25:04 GMT 1
Justapixel.
Raising prices with inflation is OK, but 600 % in 7 years and not do any maintenance ?
Same goes in the rest of Croatia. When you go from 15 euro to 40 or 45 euro you are talking 300 %. Now I believe in inflation, but last time I checked it wasn't 300 %
And the number of tourists is still climbing ?
I have my doubts about that. There used to be much more 'illegal' tourists and they are now turning 'legal' due to all the goverment regulations. That can result in an increase.
But if I compare it to other countries I cannot help but conclude that tourism is not growing that fast anymore, a few percent per year, that is it. If you look at Turkye you are looking at astounding figures. From almost nothing to 18 million last year and almost all of them come by plane ! Where does that leave Croatia (reachable by car) with its 9,5 million ?
And for the high season ?
It is an imaginary season, created by a bunch of fools who cannot understand that it is the tourist who decides when it is high season. When you have your holiday that is your high season. A tourist would not care less if they call it low, mid or high season. His boss tells him he can have a holiday and so for him it is high season.
It is a concept which Croatians apparently cannot understand. Strange that in many parts of the world they do understand it pretty well and have adjusted accordingly.
And to think that demand is higher in August than in e.g. July is fooling yourself. Looking at this season I think that July was more busy than August. The period between 15 July and 5 August was the busiest time of this year, for business and for tourists.
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Post by pocketvenus on Sept 3, 2007 23:06:37 GMT 1
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Post by californiacro on Sept 3, 2007 23:25:17 GMT 1
Wherever in Europe I am I can't bear American tourists, as they are so loud, obnoxious, ignorant and take up all the face! So true.... so lucky you don't have to live with them... it is horrible....... I don't know how I manage d**n Yankee's
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