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Post by zorro on Mar 10, 2008 11:10:54 GMT 1
lend us 50 kuna
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Post by mambo on Mar 10, 2008 12:40:47 GMT 1
@3lions,
There is nothing wrong with foreigners buying houses, but they should be aware of the market and not destroy a property market for the simple reason that they can.
The attitude 'I don't care what will happen to the rest of the world as long as I am happy' is a bit too capitalistic for me.
History has seen many economies collapse in tourist countries because of 'quick buck' real estate agents and money loaded buyers. Good examples in the past were Spain, France, Austria, many Caribbean islands, now Florida and the list goes on and on.
Cities with a lot of economic activity can sustain rising prices, but especially areas with little to no economic activity should be protected from idiots with too much money. Then you can claim that the locals will be happy to be able to spend some money, but you simply forget that the prices will prevent many other locals to find any housing whatsoever. When the locals, who actually have to do all the work in a village, are unable to find accommodation how do you think that village will survive ?
If you don't believe me come and take a look at our beautiful example called Cervar in Istria, it is now a Ghostcity. Nobody lives there, all the shops, restaurants are empty, broken windows, no paint, no maintenance. How did it happen ?
Simple. Outsiders came in, bought the properties at too high prices and then did not live there. They only showed up once or twice a year, which is obviously too little to sustain a supermarket, a restaurant or other shops.
The economy of a village is a bit more complicated than simply 'let's buy all the property at ridiculous prices so that at least I can say I have something'.
After all you should not forget that the value of your property also depends on what the village has to offer. If the village is dead...........so is your property.
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Post by zorro on Mar 10, 2008 15:25:03 GMT 1
Well I understand those sentiments but the family selling this particular house are Croatian and want to sell it because they don't want it. An old auntie lived there and she passed away last year. She had lived there since WWII. What can I say? Plus if you rent it out to tourists then aren't you helping the local people in the long run because of the money they bring with them.
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Post by justapixel on Mar 10, 2008 20:43:00 GMT 1
< Then pay us a round of drink. You can have your can of gasoline.  . |
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Post by justapixel on Mar 10, 2008 22:02:33 GMT 1
Then pay us a round of drink. You can have your can of gasoline. .  Ok, then your avatar can have it.  . |
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Post by Nick on Mar 11, 2008 14:10:39 GMT 1
mambo "The attitude 'I don't care what will happen to the rest of the world as long as I am happy' is a bit too capitalistic for me. "
I can think of several people who fall into that category and they are the most powerful people on the planet. Its a mass conspiracy and 99% don't even think about it.
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Post by londonhack on Mar 11, 2008 18:27:34 GMT 1
well, this is happening in the UK too - ie locals being driven out of their homes by rich incomers. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/mar/09/ruralaffairs.housepricesThe problem is that there is not enough social housing for people who need it. However, I suspect that a lot of people who have bought second homes/buy-to-lets will find themselves caught out by the coming recession..I already know two seperate brits who are desperate to unload spanish properies but there are no buyers about. |
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Post by solitum on Mar 12, 2008 10:12:12 GMT 1
@3lions, Cities with a lot of economic activity can sustain rising prices, but especially areas with little to no economic activity should be protected from idiots with too much money. I don’t see any problem in foreigners buying house, the only problem if they are not recurrently contributing to the economy whit there property. So what Croatia needs is high property tax on holiday houses, if that was applied, I think everybody could live with foreigner or local owning property as long as the every year contribute to the country, with a % of the property value in tax. If think this would have a number of positive effects. 1. All the property which is put for sale for unrealistic high prices, because no body actually has to sell (as there is almost no cost in holding them) would certainly be on the market for a realistic price because seller can not afford to sit on it. 2. Foreign and local buyers of holiday houses will benefit from lower prices, the can buy house as luxury good or the can buy the house as investment and use it for renting out. But will contribute recurring to economy of country. 3. Local buyers of main residency will be able to afford a house. 4. State can use extra income to lower tax on income and thereby make Croatia more interesting for foreign investor who wants to set up business here and create jobs. WHICH IS MAIN thinks what country needs. 5. With more jobs, state will have higher tax payment and could pay of foreign debts or lower tax on income even more to accelerate the process. And so one….. |
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Post by darcy on Mar 12, 2008 13:53:46 GMT 1
Introducing any kind of property taxes in Croatia is a political suicide.
Also, please keep in mind, all property owners must be taxed equally regardless where they originate or reside.
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Post by solitum on Mar 12, 2008 15:12:22 GMT 1
Introducing any kind of property taxes in Croatia is a political suicide. I fully agree, if you only talk about property tax it is. How ever a clever politician with real intentions of making Croatia a better place for the average citizens would be able to explain that 90% of them could actually benefit a lot from this. Problems is just that main part of the politicians are making there money on property deals, so it has to come from the people. |
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IgorG
Full Member
Posts: 49
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Post by IgorG on Mar 12, 2008 15:34:18 GMT 1
Introducing any kind of property taxes in Croatia is a political suicide. I fully agree, if you only talk about property tax it is. How ever a clever politician with real intentions of making Croatia a better place for the average citizens would be able to explain that 90% of them could actually benefit a lot from this. Problems is just that main part of the politicians are making there money on property deals, so it has to come from the people. no no no, smart politician would not mention this tax to people, just put a law to vote and that is it..... don't believe that all politicians are making money on property deals, coast is just a small portion of Croatia. They are making money on all kind of deals, and there is a small portion of honest ones (less than 10%?) |
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Post by darcy on Mar 12, 2008 15:38:24 GMT 1
Property ownership in Croatia is very high, higher then in any other Western country, you can think about 80-85%. Most are free of any liabilities.
If you try to rock the current system, you are against the huge majority. Better tax system is not related to the rotten property deals, politicians will make them regardless.
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Post by solitum on Mar 12, 2008 15:44:52 GMT 1
Darcy: As I mention in my first post I am only talking about holiday house (second property) which will apply to all foreigners and Croatians holding more than one property.
of the hundreds of croatians i know this will apply to maybe 10-15% so i dont know where the 80-85% comes from.
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Post by darcy on Mar 12, 2008 16:16:33 GMT 1
Residential owner occupied is 80-85% is the official and the independent estimate.
The second property penetration is also very high, I do not know the right figures, but I will estimate it high as 40%. Most of these properties are non-productive holiday houses, but some are multi-million dollar mansions with excellent rental return. Keep in mind, Croatia is a very specific country, the population there was not able to invest their savings other then property or foreign currency accounts. Foreign currency savings accounts in Croatia were devaluated or still in doubt, so property is the main saving vehicle for Croats for the last 50 years. Other financial derivates like investment funds, insurance, shares or non-state pensions are very, very recent and still very primitive.
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Post by justapixel on Mar 12, 2008 16:17:59 GMT 1
Property ownership in Croatia is very high, higher then in any other Western country, you can think about 80-85%. Most are free of any liabilities. If you try to rock the current system, you are against the huge majority. Better tax system is not related to the rotten property deals, politicians will make them regardless. That's why you can combine property tax with a wide range of property tax exemptions, for example fixed amount of square meters is not taxed depending on number of family members. That would leave mostly the ones with extra properties liable to taxes. Basically that would force people to seek a way to gain profit from their properties or sell them, in effect reducing overinflated property prices which are currently burden on Croatia. I don't think such measures would be popular on this forum though, because they would both force extra taxes on foreigners and reduce the value of their properties... But for Croatians it would be better. Anyways, it will never happen for oh so many reasons... . |
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