How do the locals survive

[Natali]

I just can't figure it out. I just came back from
almost a month in Croatia and I swear I spent
half my time trying to figure out how the average
person working there could afford it.
Food in the supermarkets was just as much as it
is here ( U.S.). Clothes, same thing. Forget about gasoline.
Yet everywhere you look people are dressed in whatever
the latest trend is. Designer sunglasses. New cars.
I don't get it.
It's not just the young adults either. You would see families
walking through the cities dressed what had to be 6 months worth of salary.

I stopped in one shop while in Zagreb to check the price on a kids
backpack. 659kn. No joke.

How do they do it?

[els]

many struggle, but my inlaws have had the same furniture for 30 years. You'll find Croatians look after there belongings alot better than most do. Basically thet are not so wastefull.

[alsdoubles]

Natali said:

I just can't figure it out.
How do they do it?

Beats me. I've been here five months. Never seen so many jeans, shoes, opticians shops, hairdressers in my entire life. Never seen so many assistants looking in to space. Never seen so many civil servants. Never seen so many supermarkets, plastic funiture shops, plumbers, cooker merchant in my entire life. Everything's cash! And so many people appear to own a house/ flat and have 2 more beach houses, plus they've bought one of their kids a flat/house. VAT at 22%.
Puzzling. Very.

[Tom 3]

Maybe nobody pays any tax!

[puzzled]

I am very puzzled also!!! And can't understand how the locals survive. There are very little competition here and everything is expensive. Here in the US... you can call anywhere for a few cents a minute, connect to the internet with minimal amount, food, gas, clothes may be the same (we also have large discount shops, i.e. walmart, kmart etc.), but it is very expensive in Croatia. How do they do it? How do they afford it?

[BobM]

All Croats pay tax (sales tax is 22%)!

[alsdoubles]

Guest-Tom said:

Maybe nobody pays any tax!

Houdini could not, not pay tax in Croatia. I paid 20 kuna last week for the form to start my next stage for permanent stay (plus 22% VAT). You just can't not pay it..........It's like a Klingon. It's clings on everything! Think about it...juha!, Grah!, Bujola!!!! Croats are Klingons. It must be true. Or the author was, a Croat.

[Eva]

Alsdoubles,stop being so obsessed with the Croatian VAT.It can be found in almost every single post you make on here.Say something new,don't repeat yourself OVER and OVER again!it's a bit tiresome, you know.

[alsdoubles]

Guest-Eva said:

Alsdoubles,stop being so obsessed with the Croatian VAT.It can be found in almost every single post you make on here.Say something new,don't repeat yourself OVER and OVER again!it's a bit tiresome, you know.

I would suggest you have not run a business for 33 years with the VAT men...(Men in black) breathing down your neck. I dodged them for years. Had to, in the UK. As I understand it, in Croatia IF you set up a business, there is no floor limit. You pay 22% as an unpaid tax collector for the 'state.' In cash, monthly, on your sales. (I am NOT fully sure of the facts on this mind you. Frightening though.)
VAT. Hate it. What do they call it here? PDV? You make a million in Croatia, you pay the state 22% on top. Hike up your prices, for the benefit of the limo wristed state. For the pleasure.
Evil I call that. In any country. It's like....If you dare to 'try' and make a few quid, we'll have 22% of it. And we do not care if you make a profit. So long as you pay us.. Obsessive. yes. Hate it with a vengence!

[Anja]

Natali said:

I just can't figure it out. I just came back from
almost a month in Croatia and I swear I spent
half my time trying to figure out how the average
person working there could afford it.
Food in the supermarkets was just as much as it
is here ( U.S.). Clothes, same thing. Forget about gasoline.
Yet everywhere you look people are dressed in whatever
the latest trend is. Designer sunglasses. New cars.
I don't get it.
It's not just the young adults either. You would see families
walking through the cities dressed what had to be 6 months worth of salary.

I stopped in one shop while in Zagreb to check the price on a kids
backpack. 659kn. No joke.

How do they do it?

He..he..
Yesterday I was sitting in a cafe in Trogir.
Three sixteen/seventeen year old kids sitting next to me.
Talking about their cars..
How much they spend on petrol, whose car is better etc..etc..
And how is the business, one said?
Not bad, said other, we are full, thanks god..

I thought when I was sixteen I mostly thought about the boys.. ;D
But this new generation ;D thinks about the cars and business ;D I do not get it either.

And the catch is:
They do not pay mortgage.
They mostly have no debts as for last 20 years there were no loans available.
Their childcare is very cheap, 800 kunas a month full time..
No lunches in the City.
They do not pay much for transport.
They do not eat as much as we do and are more active.
Almost every home has a holiday house for rent.

I do not know about you but this is where my money goes.

When I asked the same question in Croatia they told me an old Croatian saying: Bolje je znati nego imati.
( It is better to know how then to have) ;D

[elsanddee]

One observation i made, was many older children working for thier parent's tourism related businesses. From what i saw they worked very hard. So all i have to say is good Luck to them, it's nice to see the youth benefiting. I have also noticed all these supermarkets and shops open up, but they are all trying to grab as much market share as posible in a strong economic and growing economy. I think this is only a good sign for croatia.

[Crazy Horse]

Natali, your observation is very true, but it lacks some of the universal facts for Croatia

1. Criminals - 90% of the good cars, very well dressed people you see are criminals. By 1990, Croatia, as part of Yugolslavia, was a communist country and everything was state owned. Then came capitalism and "privatisation", which can be translated into theft in croatia's example. It created many new rich people over night, most of them had poor education, poor culture but had political connections, deals with mob and they were yelling "Croatia" loud enough to become nationalists in proffesion. During the last 10-15 years being Croatian was, and in some part still is, the best profession one can have. It gets you to run the country, and then everything is possible.
2. corruption -which is also linked to criminal. basically, it envolves city/state oficials, JUDGES, police, army and other "loyal" citizens. Depending on work they do, for example, giving building permits, they can make a lot of money. You can work in a urban planing office in city, get payed 500 $ but still be able to drive a porsche and live in a penthouse. No one will ask questions
3. Living on a loan - most popular way of living here. Take loan, and insted of investing it, spend it on some nice car, clothes, regal meals and stuff. And when the bills start coming in, then it's living la vida broka, startving, or banks just take your properties lol

4. The rest is 10%, people who really have some brains and a lot of dedication, or those who inherited some money or family business.
People who start from scratch in this country, with little money, and manage legally to build a respectable business should be given a nobel prize. Taxes, getting permits, getting good work force, and getting payed for your services/products is really 2 much to ask in this country.

The examples you've seen are mainly from the city centre where all those scumbags come to show off. Go to suburbs, or even countryside, you'll see the croatian reality. I would guess that 50% of population can be considered very poor, 30% so so, 10% people who can have a decent life, and 10% of super rich people. most of which are, as mention before, criminals.

[alsdoubles]

Guest-Crazy said:

Fantastic sweeping statements I must say. In the UK you had to learn to play the violin (fiddle) to do a bit. I suspect it's the same in Croatia. That is the message that's coming across. I have been trying to play it straight, which is possibly not the way. But I'm an alien here, officially. Before I take on the system I'd like to know it. Then, like in the UK, beating it is relatively easy. Relatively. Shame aint it. Does anyone lie straight in bed, anywhere on the planet?

[Crazy Horse]

You can not beat the system here man, you can live with it, or If you're powerful enough change it in a way. I wanted to start a topic about why do you english and american people wanna come live here?
Ok, I can understand the fact If you are retired, finding a small/big property on coast and living a peaceful life here can be a good thing. But for young people, do you have any idea what are you getting yourselves into? It's true, there isn't such a place on earth where everything is perfect, as life is a compromise. But coming to live in croatia you sure make lots of compromises.

Only way I can see some foreign folks come to live here would be super rich ones. If you got a lot of money, then this truly can be a paradise, you'll be untouchable. So, it isn't strange why many of the russian mob people got their citizienship during the 90', for them, it's a place on earth

[Crazy Horse]

Laste sentence, instead of place on earth, I meant a place in heaven.
Lmao, I don't have time to preview