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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 29, 2005 16:30:06 GMT 1
Amazing how this government in exile has suddenly appeared when Croatia is having EU accession talks!!
I would argue they may have some support in Serbia but very little in Croatia amongst Serbs. Easy for Serbs outside the country to talk about Krajina when they are not living anywhere near it and the same goes for the "in exile" government.
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Post by star on Mar 29, 2005 21:39:11 GMT 1
CSA, I've spoken with several serbs from Croatia who say they feel culturally closer to the Croatians than to Serbia. One lady told me when she came to serbia she felt like she landed on Mars because it was so alien to her. She didn't like the people there at all, with their strange accents and customs.
I was wondering if this was a common sentiment among serbian refugees? I know many didn't want anything to do with either croatia or serbia and went to the west instead.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 29, 2005 23:45:37 GMT 1
Many Croatian Serbs always had a deep distrust of Serbians, I would say even before the war. However at that time Serbians exploited our fears and we placed a level of trust that will never be placed again (I hope!).
I have spoken with many Croatian Serbs who fled to Serbia during "oluja", the stories i have heard have been unbelievable, Serbians not serving Croatian Serbs in stores once they hear the accent, calling Croatian Serbs "Germans" and saying we should go back from where we came. At the same time, it is evident that their is very little commonality between Serbians and Croatian Serbs.
In my mind their is absolutely no doubt that Croatian Serbs are far closer to Croatians than Serbian and i go as far as to say that the silent majority of Croatian Serbs also share this view.
The ones who fled West, will probably never return which is a shame for the many generations that will now come to an end.
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Post by Ugursuz on Mar 30, 2005 7:31:52 GMT 1
Croatian 'Serbs' or actually population in Croatia of orthodox christian religion lives there for more than 200 years. Urban Serbs are indistintinguishable from urban Croats in their professional life or actually in other type of social interaction. What all that population had in common with Serbs in Serbia? Almost nothing except religion.
Rural serbian population is different for several reasons which made them a bit isolated socially. Most importantnly, after WW1 and WW2 wherever the life was 'difficult' in terms of living conditions (rural areas) local 'serbian' population was close to local political governing bodies. Why was that? Because Serbs in Croatia always went higher in politics and were much more involved in politics than Croats. Consequently, being close to the politics gave you benefits which you otherwise would not have access to. (Croats were defeated in WW2 so they were 'paying' the price by being less represented in politics/party etc.) That however resulted in the fact that rural serbian population remained not only physically but also socially secluded from croatian population (it was always 'them' and 'us'; never 'we'). Nonsense about being in 'danger' at the beginning of 90' that was sold to rural serbian population by their political representatives (that mostly came from Serbia) + certain feeling of isolation went together fine. Serbs found themselves not only isolated but at war with their neighbours that lived with them for 200 years.
It took them 5 years to realize they have nothing in commomn with Serbs from Serbia - but then it was too late.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 30, 2005 14:19:49 GMT 1
Ugursuz, i agree Croatian Serbs are almost indistinguishable from ethnic Croatians in social interaction. Many serbs have ethnically Croatian surnames too and vice versa.
Regarding the nonesense danger you mention, i would agree it is a nonesense but for the average villager who had been fed their staple diet of what Croatians had done in the last independent Croatia, it was a very real danger, regardless of whether we think so or not.
They were scared, we knew not to trust Serbians long before this war, but at that time it was the lesser of the two percieved evils?, we picked the wrong one!!
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Post by Ribaric unplugged on Apr 8, 2005 0:05:12 GMT 1
I would have thought the action of putting together a government in exile - of part of someone else's country is about the biggest own-goal it is possible to do. It says to me that these people still have expansionist and aggressive views, and it must say the same to the rest of the World. Look what happened the last time someone got aggressive with their neighbour! I prefer to believe that this is a crude attempt to gain the nationalist (unthinking?) vote and gain power for it's own sake. It will surely gain the (very) right wing vote, will it not?
The problem with this kind of thinking that, just maybe, someone closer to home will anounce a new political party which will have it's own military wing. Some of us have seen this before, it's not good.
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Post by barba Jere on Apr 9, 2005 9:47:24 GMT 1
Many Croatian Serbs always had a deep distrust of Serbians, I would say even before the war. However at that time Serbians exploited our fears and we placed a level of trust that will never be placed again (I hope!). I have spoken with many Croatian Serbs who fled to Serbia during "oluja", the stories i have heard have been unbelievable, Serbians not serving Croatian Serbs in stores once they hear the accent, calling Croatian Serbs "Germans" and saying we should go back from where we came. At the same time, it is evident that their is very little commonality between Serbians and Croatian Serbs. In my mind their is absolutely no doubt that Croatian Serbs are far closer to Croatians than Serbian and i go as far as to say that the silent majority of Croatian Serbs also share this view. The ones who fled West, will probably never return which is a shame for the many generations that will now come to an end. Am glad there are Serbs that still think like this. Makes me more optimistic of the future. Unfortunalely many Serbs have bought nationalist crap Serbia and their radicals are selling them and are still dreaming. Unfortunately Right wing croats are reacting exactly as they want them to react. I hope people will overcome this nationalistiic nonsense. But as CSA said timing of this Exile gov makes you wonder those Serbs are not doing it alone and that Radicals in Serbia are still looking towards Croatian Land. Visit some Serbian forums and iit will become clear how they think. Miths Miths Serbian Miths |
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Post by irac on Apr 9, 2005 10:47:22 GMT 1
I am delighted to see you look at it objectively barba, the same idiots who propagate a greater serbia are the same as those clowns in Croatia who want to sanitise war criminals and play the sympathy card. You are so right to say that the hope is people see past this nonsense, see it for what it is (a way for corrupt (thought and practice) people to try gain power and money for themselves). The parallel with the, can I say s c u m in Northern Ireland who want to perpetuate violence and misery for the sake of their nerfarious dealings and positions of power. This has to include the "knowledgable" "experts" that are wheeled into SKy BBC and so on to say how their old comrades are still bad and so on, yet the public buy it.
For the sake of the kids who have grown up in a dysfunctional region, in dysfunctional homes, it can only be hoped that the sub-humans who promote the virulent and ridiculous nationalism from all sides are pushed into the margins, or preferably over a cliff.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 9, 2005 15:29:54 GMT 1
Barba Jere, serbs from Croatia have suffered enough and just want to get on with their lives, you will always get idiots who will stir up trouble but the majority will not listen to this rubbish anymore.
The more Croatian Serbs and Croatians interact the stronger this relationship will become. Serbians can try and stir up as much as they like but they are now in another country and should look worry about their own parts of their country rather than having aspirations on others.
Its been a painful lesson for us, but it was one that needed to be learnt at some point. You should have reason to be optimistic for the future, providing Croatians and Croatia provide equal rights (no better just equal) then there is no reason to worry for the future.
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Post by FranchiseCroatia on Apr 9, 2005 20:27:28 GMT 1
The fact that these serbs formed an exiled government in Serbia is nothing but a joke, and is not even worthy of discussing. The biggest problem here in Croatia is the low life politicians that will use it as an excuse to push forward their own private agenda and scare tactics to win votes. Mind you, these very politicians are the one's that are only interested in filling their pockets, not doing something good for the community or country.
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Post by Toms on Apr 9, 2005 20:29:39 GMT 1
How are we going to get on with each other in this EU when all republics will join?
Sooner or later all countries will be in so what is the point in arguing that they are in first and we are after them and all that?
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Post by irac on Apr 10, 2005 0:15:32 GMT 1
Last three points illustrate the positive thinking that needs to prevail more. Franchise, you hit it on the head, corrupt (mainly morally) politicians are using it as an excuse to whip up people's fears, and Toms has it right when sooner or later the borders are going to be open for people and capital (check the UK and Ireland) and if this idiocy goes on then nobody is going to progress or benefit.
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Post by Ribaric unplugged on Apr 10, 2005 1:35:05 GMT 1
How much of a problem is it though? I have the view that Rupert Murdoch can swing UK general elections (by some degree at least) by publishing smears, distortions and unsupported allegations in his disgraceful tabloid. If we think we in the UK are above all this then we're kidding ourselves. This Krajina business is relevant to many Croatians, Serbs and Muslims - and it isn't that long ago when unspeakable horrors were inflicted as a result of it. I don't agree with Graham, this IS dangerous stuff, whilst being at the same time.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 10, 2005 19:37:41 GMT 1
I dont think this government in exile is any problem at all, nobody in Croatia will give it any credibility whatsoever. The great majority of serbs who are in Croatia wont give it any credibility, it will be the same old bunch of radicals in Serbia and serbs who have fled to Serbia and just want to stir up trouble.
No people's within Croatia will give it any credibility, the only possibility is that the Croatian politicians use it to scare the population into thinking that a resurgence may start, but i think this is unlikely.
I would agree Ribaric unplugged that people like Rupert Murdoch does have great influence in the UK, but this is only because the great majority in the UK believe what they read in certain "rubbish" papers. I would actually grant the general croatian public far more credit, as a nation they are more savvy to the real goings on in the country and Europe as a whole.
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