Paypal bans Croatia and other "Balkan countries"

[ryno17]

FYI, Paypal has suddenly banned everybody in Croatia from accessing their site.

Here is the basic situation:
1) I live in Croatia as an expat and operate several websites that use Paypal for payment. Everything worked fine for 8 months until 2 weeks ago.
2) I discover that there is a USA Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) sanction against certain INDIVIDUALS who "threaten international stabilization efforts" in Kosovo and surrounding areas (NO mention of Croatia at all). This means their assets are frozen.
3) On the OFAC website (http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sanctions/), they title this sanction "The Balkans" as a general title
4) Some corporate robots at Paypal read the title, but NOT the actual sanction itself, so they decide to cut off access to all COUNTRIES in the Balkans.
5) I try to explain to them for 2 weeks that the OFAC sanction has ZERO to do with Croatia or Croatians and that this is a big mistake to cut off access to millins of people in several countries when the sanction deals with a few individuals in a small troublespot area.
6) When I finally convince them that Croatia is not involved, they change their answer to a "risk assessment" and that "all Balkan countries" are banned.
7) I learn that access in Greece (a Balkan country) is still allowed but not any former Yugoslav nations. So the "all countries in the Balkan region" answer is a lie. I can only guess they think that since Croatia is one of those "-ia" countries it must be so very sketchy.
8) They refuse to explain (maybe because their logic is unexplainable) or help fix this error. They are "sorry for the inconvenience".
9) It's a bit more than an inconvience - now I can't operate any of my websites from Croatia and my livelihood is threatened since this is my only income.
10) All of you in Croatia (and other Slavic Balkan countries) now are banned from accessing Paypal from Croatia.

If this makes you mad:
1) you live in Croatia so you now can't use Paypal to buy things online or to run a website business,
2) you're a native Croatian is who is sick and tired of uninformed, prejudiced, and under-traveled people who have a unjustified, negative bias towards Croatia and other Slavic countries (like my girlfriend who is so tired of this attitude towards her and her country)...

...then please tell Paypal you want access from Croatia.

I would love it if 50 people sent them an email and complained. Maybe then they would find Croatia on a map for once and fix their error.

Here is their email:
[e-mail]

Just say this:
Why did you cut off Paypal access from Croatia? I want to use Paypal.

If you are a Paypal member already, then unless this policy is changed, you no longer can use the site from Croatia.

This is really important for me and I would think it has to affect alot of people in these Balkan countries that have been so casually banned. I really would appreciate it if a few people could send out a quick email.

Good luck and thanks!

Ryan

[ryno17]

Oh by the way, other countries that are banned from Paypal include:

North Korea
Sudan
Iraq
Burma (Myanmar)
Liberia
Libya

...so if you don't like how Paypal has lumped Croatia with these countries, you might want to send an email to them.

[Robert1]

Croatia was never on their list of countries where you can send money or from where you can sign up.
About a year ago I have sent them an e-mail asking about including Croatia, and I got usual bla-bla answer... thank you for your interest... bla-bla... at the moment... bla-bla... keep watching our web site for updates.. bla-bla.

[huegus]

ryno17 said:

FYI, Paypal has suddenly banned everybody in Croatia from accessing their site.

What do you mean by banned? Cant open the page? cant login to an existing account? Cant create new?

[alsdoubles]

I would suggest, if you feel strongly about it, then keep at them. I personally, in the UK, gave up on PayPal several years ago when their guarantees were total and utter rubbish. Which, I would suggest, they still are. Are we not talking Amercian here?
Get a Merchant account. PayPal, so the Americans and half the worlds scam artists believe is the 'ultimate solution'. Which I oersonally do not like a lot. But, having said all that, eBay, have done quite a bit to solidify the situation but....eBay is too big, and getting bigger....So, one must find a way other than PayPal. PayPal sounds too easy. Live without it. Direct bank transfer is much easier. But, you try telling an Amercian that. The Amercians love PayPal. It is their baby. Well, sort of.

[ryno17]

Until two weeks ago, you could always access Paypal from Croatia. You could NOT link your account to a Croatian bank account. That is what Robert1 refers to.

However, you could link your account to a bank account (if you had one) in any of their 45 accepted countries (USA, Canada, Italy, Germany, UK, France, etc). So for anybody here (esp. expats) with a bank account from another country, you CANNOT now use Paypal when in Croatia.

Why would local Croatians with no foreign bank account care? Because the idiots at Paypal have grossly misread a OFAC sanction and banned Croatia, so now...

Croatia = North Korea = Iraq = Sudan = Libya etc.

That's a pretty damaging and undeserved blow to Croatia's credibility and reputation if you allow Paypal to continue this wrongful ban.

Expats and Croatians, please send Paypal an email that says Croatia should not be banned and grouped with these other countries. Until people get educated about Croatia, they will continue to possess stupid predudice against this and other Slavic countries.

These stupid, condescending Americans (some of whom run these worldwide companies) need a geography and history lesson. It's a harsh statement but it is deserved based on how they just casually ban the entire Balkans when the sanction only applies to a few people.

FYI, I'm an American.

[ryno17]

By banned, this means that if you are in Croatia, you cannot create a new account or access an existing account. You can certainly access the home page, but you can't login to anything.

[huegus]

ryno17 said:

By banned, this means that if you are in Croatia, you cannot create a new account or access an existing account. You can certainly access the home page, but you can't login to anything.

same prob i had too when i bought an online shop modul. There is a paypal modul included, but cant use it in HR.

But its not that big problem cause Moneybookers will publish soon a croatian language modul so forget Paypal ...

[alsdoubles]

I am in Croatia. Selling right now, items. And have sold items from Croatia. However I must say, selling from Croatia, I do get the feeling that mainly American buyers take you less seriously. Sadly I have to say 'some' US buyers always were, from the UK too. Very insular some of these people.

[ryno117]

Was anybody kind enough to send Paypal an email? Did you get a response?

Help!

Thanks,
Ryan

[Natali]

Just got this from PayPal today.

Per international sanctions regulations, you are not authorized to access the PayPal system.
For more information about your PayPal account status, contact [e-mail]. For further information regarding international sanctions, please refer to the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control at www.treas.gov/ofac, or to the UK Bank of England at www.bankofengland.co.uk/sanctions.

PayPal is aware that Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albania, Macedonia and Serbia and Montenegro are not OFAC sanctioned countries. Currently, there are trading and transaction restrictions of: persons engaged in, assisting, sponsoring, or supporting internal stabilization efforts in the Western Balkans.

[Ribaric]

Sanctions? What is this - Zimbabwe?

Surely I've got the wrong end of this stick - haven't I?

Paypal are saying they are unable to operate in HR due to "transaction restrictions" - Who made these restrictions? By what authority?

Why would restrictions apply to ...

"persons engaged in, assisting, sponsoring, or supporting internal stabilization efforts in the Western Balkans".

Isn't stabilization a good thing?

It must be me.

[joe]

There is a huge industry for pirate software, steroids( plus pharmaceutical drugs) and pirate music/movies here in Croatia.

Many people advertise these on line as kosher online shops selling cheap media or drugs. When people send off the payment, instead of receiving licensed goods, they receive burnt cd's in a plastic case without manual and with crack (not the drug).

Croatia along with Russia, Ukraine and Serbia and Montenegro is one of the highest offenders in this industry.

It sucks I know, but this is one reason I know of.

Why PayPal doesn’t come out and say this is a mystery.

[Ribaric]

Thanks Joe - It is me then! Seems I'm not street-wise enough to be let out on my own.

I guess this is a bit like my self-imposed embargo against dealing with any African state. We sent goods to Nigeria (twice) and South Africa (once) and never got paid. We still get plenty of enquiries but our response is always.....

"My boss tells me that our company policy is not to sell to African states"

It's hard to just say "because our experience tells us you're a bunch of thieving *&%$£"!@~#s." so we're nice about it. I guess "restrictions" means much the same thing.

[ryno 17]

Thanks for all the replies.

I need to clarify a few things:

1) True- Paypal has not yet authorized banking service in Croatia. By this I only mean, PP accounts can not be LINKED to a Croatian bank account. This is probably due to some black market activities mentioned above. But this is not the issue here.

2) The issue is LOGIN access to Paypal so that people can send/receive money to a bank account in one of the 50 or so countries (in my case USA) where Paypal allows banking linkages.

For several months in 2004-2005 this was no problem until June 10th when it was suddenly cut off.

PP's continued excuse is that Croatia is under an OFAC sanction. This is COMPLETELY incorrect if one takes a simple look at the OFAC website (which PP mentions but apparently does not read).

The closet OFAC sanction has to do with those PERSONS in the Balkans (mostly Kosovo-related) threatening international stabilization efforts. Clearly the entire population (nor even 0.001%) of Croatia does not belong to this group, so PP banning the entire country is beyond ridiculous.

So, the issue is mere login access to Paypal from Croatia. Nobody here is allowed to simply login to an existing account or create a new account (even without a bank linkage).

Paypal frankly does not care about this issue (and thus its customers/potential customers in Croatia). I have sent literally 25 emails explaining the issue to them (why I am doing their job?) and have gotten these replies (from at least 20 different customer service reps so the issue just gets passed around):

20 - "We're sorry but Croatia is a OFAC sanctioned country" ----- (for the 20th time, no it is NOT)
1 - "Croatia is not sanctioned but it failed a risk assessment of the region" ---- (then why was there login access for 10 months until 3 weeks ago?)
1 - "All Balkan countries are sanctioned" --- (Again, not true. Also, why is access from Greece allowed? It's Balkan)
1 - " Establishing service in a new country takes time" --- (this is not about allowing Croatian banking linkages, it is about simple LOGIN ACCESS)
1- "Thanks for using Paypal. Sorry for the inconvenience. Have a good day" --- (arghhhhhh).
1 - "Please send your question via a secure form by logging into PP" --- (arggh I can't login!).

This has been the most exasperating customer service experience of my life. I believe they are just purposely trying to get me to quit pursuing this issue. They know banning Croatia is a mistake but nobody cares to fix it.

I am going to send this story to national media in Zagreb saying that US national Paypal has banned all of Croatia because they claim it is a sanctioned country (just like North Korea, Iraq, and Sudan). I think most Croats will rightly be pissed at this ignorance and slap in the face.

Does anybody have any media contacts in newspapers or TV?

Thanks,
Ryan