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Post by David R on Aug 25, 2005 12:04:52 GMT 1
I Think what I said was fairly clearly, unsurprisingly the truth has been distorted on this thread in the favour of mighty Croatia. Croam, the bottleneck that I had to sit in whilst heading north was the result of the tunnel not being complete. That is a fact, it was not even all that windy on that day, but the Croatian propaganda machine saw fit to blame the elements despite the fact every single person could see what made the problem. As for the bigger earlier delay whilst heading southwards, yes it was dangerous for high sided vehicles, I don’t think we need 4 vehicles to tip over to realise that, but I believe cars were safe to pass albeit at a reduced speed, as I previously stated Mesic was allowed to cross the bridge. On to of that, a huge detour for the sake of a short bridge is a joke, it was badly managed. The highway is a good addition to Croatian life, but they messed u and they messed u big-time, the usual defend the state at any cost line, simply does not wash. It has taken a long time but I am starting to appreciate this country, I won’t however ever appreciate people whose loyalty to the state ensures that reason and truth are unimportant. That attitude needs to change.
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Post by vedran on Aug 25, 2005 21:36:01 GMT 1
To David R
Count the number of "I" in your posts and one immediately understands your personality.
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Post by David r on Aug 25, 2005 21:41:42 GMT 1
Vedran please don't lower a reasonable debate with your backwards attitude  This is not a personal debate but you seem to have done what is normal here, when there is a real issue, a real problem instead of looking for an answer attempt to discredit the person with childish and abusive remarks, I hope you find happiness. The topic at hand is the motorway try stick to that. |
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Post by mambo on Aug 25, 2005 22:07:18 GMT 1
David,
Try to look at it from another point of view. In the old days (Tito time) there were no 4-lane highways connecting the North and the South. During the war there was nothing to be build at all, in fact, they were destroying more than they built. And now, finally, they started building.
I also know that the planning of this road sometimes looks ridiculous.
In Istria we now have a sort of a highway, I call it a death road, but hopefully one day they will change it into a 4-lane road.
The road to Split could not have been placed more close to the sea, there is simply no space there and this country is not so filthy rich that they can afford a 500 km tunnel. So what they came up with is acceptable for me. If they would have taken some of the turns out I could simply go flat out and at 250 km/hr I would be able to do the distance in a little over 2 hrs.
At the moment they are working on the road Zagreb to Rijeka, changing that into a 4-lane highway and that will take a few years.
They are also working on the connection from Trieste through Slovenia into Istria and via Rijeka to the South.
Later (2008 to 2010) the road to Dubrovnik should become available.
In all it means that we will have to accept less than ideal situations for at least a number of years, but what the heck. This country has only 4 million inhabitants, what else can we expect ?
And this new highway to Split ? Due to this road we already see an increase in the tourism in Dalmatia this year of up to 17 %, not bad I would say.
The only thing I am hoping for is that they finally bring the train back in Istria. Mussolini stole the tracks and trains during WW2, it is time they put it back. Istria needs better transportation and a connection by train to Trieste would mean a lot.
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Post by elaine on Aug 25, 2005 22:39:19 GMT 1
I'd drink to that!!
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Post by Antun on Aug 26, 2005 4:00:13 GMT 1
I have not been to Croatia for a while.
I would be happy to see any new freeways, roads. Anything is better than nothing. When I was there about 2 years ago some of the roads were a disgrace.
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Post by jackal on Aug 26, 2005 5:16:39 GMT 1
I'll drink to anything.......hiccup! hiccup! BURRRRRRRRRRP!  |
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Post by Ghost on Aug 26, 2005 7:33:22 GMT 1
To David R Count the number of "I" in your posts and one immediately understands your personality. ;D haaa haaaa haaaaaaaa.... you kicked that one right into the goal.... scooore! |
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croam
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Post by croam on Aug 27, 2005 5:23:38 GMT 1
road cunstruction is one of the biggest rackets in every country and locale. You should come to Cleveland and see how many years they work on a 6km stretch of road. then its good for about two. then they have to resurface...
they will just tear down the old one and build new sections when it becomes a problem. that way someone will win a huge bid on a lucrative contract, including the politicians approving the roadbuilding who are friends with the contractor. this isn't a uniquely croatian phenomenon.
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Post by irac on Aug 27, 2005 7:38:22 GMT 1
Well put croam, any type of public oriented construction is a scam and a half. In Ireland they've just been uncovering the corrupt practice of underbidding and then upping the cost of the road along the way. I saw first hand how it worked in Waterford in the south when I was working on a dig there. I'd not worked in "commercial" archaeology before and so was, admittedly, a bit wide-eyed, but I knew what was right and wrong and how it is supposed to be done. What went on was a case of, the contractor had Xmillions to spend, in order to get kick backs to the councillors and so on, they had to "find" something for archaeologists to work on. The crews then set to work on clean fields and allowed construction on fields that actually had archaeology in them. I mentioned this to our Director (an owner of the dig company) and he said, I'll take it on board. I went on a training trip to Germany and came back to find they'd had to "let people go", yeah, like the two of us who asked about where artifacts had gone to and why mechanical diggers were allowed to rip out ancient burials.
This motorway wiped out a lot of archaeology in Croatia and apart from my and a couple of others mentioning it on an old thread, it's been forgotten. Then again if it's not on tv or in the papers, is it really there?
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Post by Ghost on Aug 29, 2005 2:34:48 GMT 1
road cunstruction is one of the biggest rackets in every country and locale. You should come to Cleveland and see how many years they work on a 6km stretch of road. then its good for about two. then they have to resurface... they will just tear down the old one and build new sections when it becomes a problem. that way someone will win a huge bid on a lucrative contract, including the politicians approving the roadbuilding who are friends with the contractor. this isn't a uniquely croatian phenomenon. I deal in a specialized construction...like I have said before... we have few competitors in what we do... but the ones that do compete for us in jobs.... alot are corrupt. Many times they will under bid us for jobs but at the end they land up charging more than all the other bids put in. What is a company to do... they have to pay to get the job finished or it puts the their whole company in jeopardy. I have landed up taking jobs we lost out on bids... to come in and finish the mess of our competitors.... what is funny is that some of these competitors will just up and change company names and start there schemes all over again. It is pretty sad. |
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croam
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Post by croam on Aug 29, 2005 15:19:50 GMT 1
same thing happens here in the US too. must be a worldwide problem
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Post by ghostwriter on Aug 30, 2005 1:42:09 GMT 1
same thing happens here in the US too. must be a worldwide problem Croam, I was talking about that happening in the USA. That has happened to us in the USA. |
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Post by mambo on Sept 3, 2005 10:55:49 GMT 1
A problem that many small companies in Croatia (at least Istria) have is that they are unable to make correct estimates. And good companies can tell you that estimates are already half the job, it can make or break a company.
When they are unable to make correct estimates, the following will happen:
Either they make an estimate that is so rediculously high that they won't get the job or they forget half the work and once given the job they will come to you for more money.
Example:
We asked a company to make us an offer for some work, moving two ice machines, cleaning and painting them and lastly they had to make a concrete foundation for which we supplied all the material, so only working hours required. I gave the boss all the information of the machines and he made an offer, which we accepted.
Once the work started he realized that what he planned could not work, so he needed more hours.
I told him that it was not my problem, he made an offer that was accepted and I did not care if he would use 1 day or 1 year to get the job done, his problem.
He tried to send me a bill for 3-times the agreed amount, I simply paid him what we agreed upon. This happened in January, he is still trying to get the remainder. He does not understand that it is not my responsibility when he makes a mistake.
His reasoning is simple and at the same time it demonstrates how little they understand about business. He figures that his people were working and someone should pay that, but it will never be him, so the customer has to pay.
This week I had a local garage, Renault, on the line. We need repair of one truck and I checked the maximum amount of hours for this job with the dealer in Zagreb. Then I called Renault in Porec and Zminj. They simply refused to accept the work for the hours allotted to them by Renault. They wanted to charge me 3-times that amount ('that book is only for superman' they said).
I passed the info to Renault Zagreb, am still waiting for an answer, but in the meantime our truck does not drive.
This is the way people do business here in Istria. They want a 'blanc' cheque so that they can write hours as much as they want.
I know it is like this all over the world, but here it is a bit more extreme.
Want another nice one ?
Just ask them how they get to their hourly fee !
In the Western world they will be able to give you a complete breakdown of the hourly fee. Here they stick their thumb in the air 'eh voila', here is our hourly fee.
One good exception to all of this ?
The Mercedes dealer in Zagreb !
Best service I ever had anywhere on this planet, hats off ! (at least............that is my experience)
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Post by ghostwriter on Sept 4, 2005 0:09:17 GMT 1
Biggest money makers in Zagreb or anywhere are car repair shops.
Have you seen how some of the car repair shops look inside, better than some restaurants and cafe's.
As my friend use to say.... they have the money honey! ;D
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