The biggest disaster of our time

[davidzg]

www.artnada.myby.co.uk/sky.jpg

[Simi]

That pretty much sums him up!

[Nameless]

LOL, google the world failure and see what the number one result is.

[croam]

well, on the one hand you can say that NOW, but anyone who understands history knows that you cannot make hasty judgements. For example: what if there is democracy in the middle east in 20 years? Who will get the credit? You guessed it....GB. So, its too early to tell. At the micro level, the US losing New Orleans, a major US city of significant cultural and historical value, can be seen as another nail in America's coffin.
On the Macro level, it has the potential for great change. Think of it this way...when in the history of mankind has civilization made sweeping changes that did not come out of some disaster or breakdown of a system or structure? People don't change by sitting down at the table nicely like gentleman and figuring it out. We could have been using alternate fuel source engines fifty years ago but that wont happen without a "big bang". So you see, its easy to blame everything on GB, but its a waste of time. A wise man once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country".
Cheerio

[davidzg]

croam said:

well, on the one hand you can say that NOW, but anyone who understands history knows that you cannot make hasty judgements. For example: what if there is democracy in the middle east in 20 years? Who will get the credit? You guessed it....GB. So, its too early to tell. At the micro level, the US losing New Orleans, a major US city of significant cultural and historical value, can be seen as another nail in America's coffin.
On the Macro level, it has the potential for great change. Think of it this way...when in the history of mankind has civilization made sweeping changes that did not come out of some disaster or breakdown of a system or structure? People don't change by sitting down at the table nicely like gentleman and figuring it out. We could have been using alternate fuel source engines fifty years ago but that wont happen without a "big bang". So you see, its easy to blame everything on GB, but its a waste of time. A wise man once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country".
Cheerio

You're guessing why I dislike the man and your reasons are wrong.
Regarding democracy, who is George Bush to tell another nation that democracy is the only way? It might be his way, it might by your way and my way, but it's not there’s.

There are many reasons for disliking George Bush, two or my key issues are is idiotic handling of the dollar, which is having a negative effect on the world climate and also his refusal to sign the lowered pollution treaty.

As for as Iraq goes, I talk to the soldiers who have been to Iraq and they tell me it’s just a complete waste of time.


I'll make a brave prediction though, George Bush will never be remember as a hero anywhere apart from right wing America.

[croam]

"Regarding democracy, who is George Bush to tell another nation that democracy is the only way?"

so why do you defend Carla Del Ponte then? Who is anyone to meddle in a sovereign nation's legal system. Why not leave it up to Croatia to handle Gotovina's case? This is the logic you are using in your argument.

Regarding GW's handling of the US dollar, I think this shows your lack of knowledge regarding currencies and trade. I'll be getting 12 kuna to the dollar in a few years again. It will be nice. If you have issues with currencies, why aren't you fuming over the ridiculous EURO? That is the biggest joke currency ever. Have fun with your EURO savings when it turns into 1980s Jugoslav Dinar. The Euro is a fallacy that will fall and fall hard.
Cheers

[davidzg]

croam said:

"Regarding democracy, who is George Bush to tell another nation that democracy is the only way?"

so why do you defend Carla Del Ponte then? Who is anyone to meddle in a sovereign nation's legal system. Why not leave it up to Croatia to handle Gotovina's case? This is the logic you are using in your argument.

Regarding GW's handling of the US dollar, I think this shows your lack of knowledge regarding currencies and trade. I'll be getting 12 kuna to the dollar in a few years again. It will be nice. If you have issues with currencies, why aren't you fuming over the ridiculous EURO? That is the biggest joke currency ever. Have fun with your EURO savings when it turns into 1980s Jugoslav Dinar. The Euro is a fallacy that will fall and fall hard.
Cheers

A lot of words and little info.

I get paid in dollars, so trust me I know about the currency, it is undervalued by perhaps 20%. The kuna is overvalued by probably 30% so I am getting screwed big time, but this is not a personal issue. I do ok.

If you're assesing the dollar simply by it's relationship to the kuna, well you're not getting it.

American is afraid of chinese and indian exports, they're trying to compete. It's stupid, it makes no sense.

I can't see any logic behind your points; you think the Euro is a waste of effort, yet you are angry because Croatia's entry is being blocked.

Croam I get the impression that you think American is a much more advanced place to most of Europe, I can assure you the standard of living in Europe is better in most western countries than in USA. We certainly don't have these large scale ghettos you find in calafornia, new orleans, chicago, actually most cities.

I think many Americans for the first time see many threats, Europe, China, India your tv which I watch is brilliant at dismissing these regions, this largely works because Americans are by and large the most ignorant people on earth with regard to other countries.
All the American reading this can count themselves out of the ignorant section as the simple fact that you’re reading about another country makes you different.

Drawing a parallel between George Bush and Del Ponte is silly at best, Croatia is seeking admission to a club, hence you have to play ball. American just wanted to kick a few asses after 911 and steal some oil.

I have news for you buddy, Croatia did commit war crimes and somebody should be held responsible. You would be the first to complain if Milosevic was still at large.

[mambo]

Bush is the biggest disaster to hit the US............ever ! period, no discussion possible.

I have never seen a president so out of touch with reality as this idiot.


Croam,

Bush did not go into Iraq to spread democracy, he went there to go after WMD of Saddam, remember ??

Then, when he did not find those weapons he conveniently changed his logic and called it 'spreading democracy'.
Well, after 3 years we have seen what 'spreading democracy' has brought the US..........another Vietnam, which he should and could have known from the onset.

And now Katrina ?

It is a complete disgrace to be so unprepared for something so predictable. Did you ever ask yourself why Cuba never has problems on this scale ? It is because Cuba plans for this, they have evacuation programs, all names are registered, busses are organised, they know where everybody goes to, how they are etc.
And here is the world's superpower and what are they capable of ?

Indeed, NOTHING.

IF this would have been a terrorist attack it would have been a major success.


In my view Bush should be tried for warcrimes, because that is what he committed. It is normal practice (everywhere on this planet, even with the 'the Hague tribunal') that presidents are held responsible for the behavior of their soldiers. That is one of the reasons why Milosovic is there.
It has been proven that warcrimes have been committed by US-troops, yet Bush is still in power.

If I would be an American at this moment I would be ashamed to be an American.

What Bush is doing is not what the founding fathers had in mind and it is also not in the tradition of the great presidents this country had.
This is all about a little boy, trying to prove his father that he is not a failure. The only thing he is proving is that he IS a failure. He has been all his life and he will remain a failure all his life.

[croam]

DAVID: as I've said before...Milosevic has the Hague wrapped around his little finger. He east better than you and I do. Are you kidding me? I watched his trial online, he is a brilliant propagandist. He used his own old propaganda "news" clips to support his case. Thats just one reason the Hague Court is a joke. FIVE YEARS! Why isn't he convicted yet?
You missed my point regarding the dollar....actually i left it out. Devaluing your currency has many after affects. In the short term that means "losing" money in exchange for other currencies....travelling etc. Long term it increases competition in the foreign market. Soon, you will all be buying our stupid products instead of chinese products. Or, most likely, it will just be an economic war of attrition and guess who will win? The country with the most endurance. So, even against China, We will win that type of battle just by sheer numbers. We have the gold. He who has the gold makes the rules. Thats the golden rule of business.
I'm not saying I agree with these policies. I just see things for how they are and not how i want them to be. I still care. I still know how things should be. I just don't struggle with reality as much as i did when i was younger.
MAMBO: alot of people are angry. everyone is saddened and dismayed at best. Local State and Federal officials can all be blamed for this. What came first? the chicken or the egg? Bush's fault? Mayors fault? Governor's fault? FEMA director's fault? I mean thats right off the badt.
In order to appreciate the information you are receiving understand that: The US is 50 States. Each state is soveirgn in EVERYTHING that does not affect The Nation. This is a blurry line. This is also the biggest natural disaster to hit the US in our history.
So, if your still with me, Technically, The Feds cannot get involved in Katrina Evac unless asked to by the governor, unless some official sounding emergency is called. But, in order to call something like that you would need the governor on the phone telling the President that they need help(i.e. The National Guard, which once called in were there overnight and took back New Orleans in three day from an anarchic disaster area). The National guard was ready to go. The DAY THE HURRICANE HIT. FRONT PAGE OF EVERY MAJOR US NEWSPAPER. Children in the streets of New Orleans. SubTitle, " New Orleans spared brunt of storm". So what do you think The President, and every other Federal official thought? OK. They went about their business. No call from the Governor. The Mayor authorized the use of ALL Government vehicles. A huge parking sits flooded, filled with hundreds of school buses. So, who's fault is it? You tell me. Those are the facts.
Now, you would think that after the levess broke and the city flooded, that the government would have sent the National Guard in but The National Guard do not have the legal authority to go in and help unless ordered to by the President, who does not have the authority to do so unless it is requested by the governor of the state, unless it is a threat to national security/economy....which it is, but then think what would have happened if George Bush sent 40,000 US troops into a city to lock it down without asking? "Police state" "gestapo" "Sweeping Powers".

Why do you guys care so much anyway. Its all just a stupid game that has been playing out for hundreds if not thousands of years. Just be ready for the storm when it hits your neighborhood.
Laku Noc

[davidzg1]

Croam, look I don't have a problem with your views but it does seem that you have a view-point that is almost exclusively pro American and pro Croatia and instead of being reasonable you attempt to angle the facts to suit your opinion. This results in a lot of contradictions.

You're insistent that Gotovina shouldn't go before the Eu, and if he does so should Del Ponte which is frankly ridiculous.
Then you insist that being before the war tribunal is a joke, that Milosevic lives a better life than you or I. Which one is it? Why is gotovina hiding away from the utopia of a prison cell.

There is no way that Milosevic lives a better life than you or I, taking away a man's liberty is a huge punishment, especially a dictator that is used to being a god of his and many other peoples world. He eats when he is told to, he exercises when he is told you, you get the picture.

There is no doubt that this tyrant is an outstanding speaker, very similar to a certain Iraqi, but so what? Screw him; nobody apart from a few million brainwashed Serbs is falling for his bullcrap. He might seem happy and arrogant for a few hours in front of the cameras but you imagine how he feels in the middle of the night, away from his family, friends and being trapped inside a cell. He is being punished.

[croam]

he doesn't live better than us but he's not slumming it in a grimy cell. Are you kidding? He is an alleged war criminal. They still haven't convicted him and never will because it is a political court and a joke. I was kidding about Carla and Gotovina. I was being sarcastic. Milosevic doesn't live better than you or I but he probably has a very nice cell, with a phone, TV, and he probably does eat better than you and I most of the time. Don't kid yourself. His friends and family bring him pig roasts and pursuit. I'm sure he's got quite fat in "prison". Of course its still prison, but its not the prison that you or I would go to. And the only reason I am against Gotovina going, well many reasons, 1. the case against him is ultra weak. 2. if he was innocent and had to prove it he would lose 5-10 years of his life doing so. 3. Hague is a political court 4. who cares about the EU anymore anyway 5. he fought for Croatia during a War. 6. its SICK to punish an entire country for the alleged crimes of one individual.

But really, I could care less. I just try to offer some different view points. thats all. If everyone was saying this i wouldn't even chime in, but they are not.

I didn't even vote for Pres. Bush even though you may think that i did by what I've written. I realize we have many problems in America but I have also recently seen how incredible of a place it really is. You have to realize that every culture in the world is represented here. Yes, there is great disparity of wealth. Yes there is poverty. Yes our foreign policies aren't appreciated by many. But it still works. It works in ways that no other country does.
I just got sick of being a complainer myself. Sick of being mad all the time. And now i see things for how they are. I try to make the best out of things. I try to see the beauty in tragedy(you kind of have to these days). And I'm sick of the reactionary people in this world who are ready to react before the dust settles. Why? Because I used to be one of them and I was always angry. I realized i wanted to be happy and that i don't have to carry the world's problems on my shoulders.
Cheers.
(i dont know if that made any sense at all. i just woke up and haven't had coffee yet.)

[z00ey]

Croatia is not getting punished for anything... it's just not ALLOWED to join the EU before it resolves some of the war/past weight that holds it down

there are no sanctions imposed as a punishment, no visas or any other form of political/economic punishment.

[irac2]

Croatia has failed to meet half of what is required to enter the EU, from the prevention of Police corruption (a little speeding income goes a long way, I'm sick to death of seeing foreign reg cars pulled over in Siveric just so that the idiots in blue can grab an extra beer or two!) to the freedom of press, to return of Serb and Croat refugees, to the re-settlement of those living in "borrowed" properties, to the tightening of ecological controls, to the standardisation of building codes and practices, to the streamlining and improvment of social services and payments. Sadly the government encouraged the clowns who were making the country look like a pit of anarchy and lawlessness by permitting the erection of posters to a wanted suspect. It is sad that the government cannot just come out and admit that things are not quite right, but then again, since one of their chief "tacticians" worked with the Bush 2000 election team, it's no wonder that we hear and see nothing but lies.

[davidzg]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4249646.stm


"Please sir, Please can I go potty" asks the world's most powerful man.

That sentence is scary, the world's most powerful man, think of all the brilliant people on this planet and he is at the top.

[croam]

ahhhh young david... do you really think President Bush is the most powerfull man in the world? With all due respect you are naive. There are a few hundred proably above him. He's just a puppet dave. The men who run the world are very powerfull and hide in the shadows. I would think you would know this by now considering the line of work you are in and the people you deal with.
Pozdrav