croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Oct 11, 2005 2:40:16 GMT 1
so is everyone celebrating over there or what? my dad comes home tonight so i'll ask him tommorrow about people's reaction to EU talks restarting. My friend in Slovenia "heard" that most people were against it. Of course that's just one person.
But really i was just wondering where everyone went. Its been very quiet on this board since Carla pulled that 180 turn on her opinion about Croatia. I was wondering if the quiet is in response to reality becoming more interesting than online banter.
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croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Oct 11, 2005 5:20:54 GMT 1
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Post by gmh on Oct 11, 2005 7:30:34 GMT 1
Everyone is partying, because croatia beat sweden in the qualifiers for the euro footy champs.
There was a poll in croatia a while ago, where you could either vote for eu, or for gotovinas freedom. The majority voted for gotovinas freedom over joining the eu. Not sure how this would pan out now that they've seemingly weakened their stance on the G man.
There was a lot of trading on the stock exchange in the days after the announcment, even a record trade of something like 1.6million kuna in a second ! or was that euros?
I think most of the regulars are taking care of business.
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Post by ROG on Oct 11, 2005 9:38:48 GMT 1
I think people generaly are "holding their breath". How many people will support Croatia entering EU is related to "how much they feel EU have positive intentions". So, each time EU acts positive towards Croatia more people "support" idea ...
Other thing is that "trading" (around start of negotiations) reflected on peoples "emotions". Basicly, everything made 180 degree turn. Those who was claiming that CDP was "just doing her job", now claim it was - trading, and those who was claiming that she is "political instrument with legal licence" claim that - she is just doing her job ... So, she is just doing her job, and nobody is sure any more - what this job exactly is.
So, everybody expects new 180 degree turn if "political circumstances" change ... How, why and when - nobody knows, just it is obvious that change "of oppinion" will come sooner or latter (just statisticaly - it is hard to avoid such possibility).
Next, definition of "full cooperation" now even expanded borders, and after "sucessfull trade" it will probably get back inside "just doing her job - borders", since "expansion of definition" served it's sense and - Turkey started negotiations.
Also, now after Croatia got connected with Turkey (and his severd it's trading purpose on both sides, as we calculated here a year ago), this same connection will easy turn into "huge burden". If things keep beeing connected between Croatia and Turkey during negotiation period - things will go hell of a slow for Croatia, and at the end it will become same as was expected by "worse scenario" - "Balcan express" enters EU in same package (10 to 12 years from now).
So, it is too "complicated" for general euphoria (except for political self marketing).
Only important thing is - when and will reforms start ? Because this should be only and real positive effect of forthcoming "negotiations". Reforms, especialy such wide allways generate sort of "fear", so before they start to produce any positive or negative effect, there will be no euphoria and/or radical change in "public support" towards EU.
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Post by elaine on Oct 11, 2005 20:49:48 GMT 1
Just got back from 5 weeks in Labin. OK, it's hardly a metropolis but everyone I asked about the EU (their opinions) said something like "@@@****^^ politicians" - so I don't think it's too popular a move here!
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croam
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Post by croam on Oct 11, 2005 22:33:14 GMT 1
yeah i cant wait to here what my friends in split think. Their in HDZ though so I think that means they are for it?
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Post by gmh on Oct 11, 2005 23:00:08 GMT 1
HDZ is all for it. But then again, I think all the parties are. It's the actual people you need to convince.
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Post by Ribaric on Oct 12, 2005 0:37:11 GMT 1
In the north (at least my little bit of it) the general, if simplistic, view is that the EU is acting all "high and mighty" in demanding that Croatia make changes, they are getting fed up with the parent/child nature of the relationship.
So the reality seems to matter less than the view that "we don't like the EU because they look down thier noses at us".
Hmmm! I don't suppose it helped when Mesic started talking about "diasporum" on HRT1. If you wanted to show cause for instability, attaway to go.
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croam
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Post by croam on Oct 12, 2005 0:43:07 GMT 1
what did Mesic say?
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Post by ROG on Oct 12, 2005 11:17:38 GMT 1
HDZ is all for it. But then again, I think all the parties are. It's the actual people you need to convince. Or more precise "none politicaly party dares to be against it". So we have interesting situation here. Political parties "all for EU", and people mostly "against it", or to be completly fair - "just not trusting anybody". It was interesting to reas European press after negotiations between Croatia and EU started. Seams like "European ego" got hurt very badly with start of negotiations. Everybody is consesual about "beloved muslim-liberal progressive, pore but happy - Turkey" entering "European circle" right from Iraqs border. In compare to "conservative-chatolic, ksenobhobic, seams not that pore - Croatia". It seams Europe recognized itself in Croatia as much, as - father recognizes himself in "most lookalike son", because he thinks he can see sons future in advance (basing predictions on his own negative expeciences). Usualy, such "love/hate" relationship is hard to explain ... but creates some "dramatic situations" which run around in circle, make family involved "on some side" ... and it never stops - son gets his own son ... and hell broke again. Europe started to look for "different" blood, or lets say more precisely - it started to hate it's own family genes, so it decided to - adopt. Again, by hating "croatia" and reflecting on it it's own frustrations EU will not gain anything. Funny is that interpretation of EU in Croatia become completly same as interpretation of Croatia in EU. Of course after "masks has failed", and EUs ego got hurt after realising they needed to start negotiations with Croatia "without Croatia making any compromise" ... Of course - EU can "stand on Croatias neck", and probably it will, but except healing wounded ego - such aproach will not achieve anything any more. Family is broken, just everybody started to convice themselves that - "open marriage" is anyway much better then some boring, conservative "catholic weading" ... Kisinger said that most dangerous for "arogant and mighty politics" is to "create so sucessfull false image about those they don't like" up to the level of - steretype. Yes, it creates - warm and nice feeling about "us" in compare to "them". But at same time it prevents any "clean vision". So "mighty and arogant" at the end get easy tricked with his own weapons, and only choice which stays for him is - to yell in the corner (or "in newspapers" as it seams ...). |
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croam
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Post by croam on Oct 12, 2005 17:10:59 GMT 1
interesting...
my dad said that alot of people he talked to think the "US is controlling everything".
thats funny seeing that the US hates the UN war crimes tribunal. so i dunno why they think that. I guess its easy to hate the US with our current administration....but I fail to see the connection with the EU holding Croatia back having anything to do with the US. If anything, I see the US stance on the Hague as benefiting Croatia at least in "moral support."
P.S. I think Carla got spanked for "doing her job" too well. I think as soon as she went after the Vatican she crossed some lines she shouldn't have crossed. That or John Bolton told her to shut up before something bad happens to her. Any opinions on that?
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Post by davidzg on Oct 12, 2005 17:26:50 GMT 1
interesting... my dad said that alot of people he talked to think the "US is controlling everything". thats funny seeing that the US hates the UN war crimes tribunal. so i dunno why they think that. I guess its easy to hate the US with our current administration....but I fail to see the connection with the EU holding Croatia back having anything to do with the US. If anything, I see the US stance on the Hague as benefiting Croatia at least in "moral support." P.S. I think Carla got spanked for "doing her job" too well. I think as soon as she went after the Vatican she crossed some lines she shouldn't have crossed. That or John Bolton told her to shut up before something bad happens to her. Any opinions on that? Croam, it's not even worth the effort reading your posts. Just put your name on and we will all know what your post will say. USA USA USA, we're great, we're better than anybody else, you're lucky we're saving your asses blah blah. As I said just leave your name in future it will save your time and everybody elses. |
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croam
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Post by croam on Oct 12, 2005 18:26:37 GMT 1
DAVID: this is a post about Croatia and the EU. If you want to argue with someone argue with your wife. My comment was not pro US. If you took the time to read and process your thoughts instead of being a knee-jerk reactionary than maybe you would see the black and white print on your screen. Where ya been the last week? Dropping propaganda fliers over bosnia?
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Post by mark2 on Oct 12, 2005 19:43:06 GMT 1
Jack Straw on Croatian news tonight, making a statement that Croatia will be in the EU sooner than expected ;D
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stipe
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Post by stipe on Oct 12, 2005 19:48:12 GMT 1
is davidzg the new emiz..... or even the old emiz......hmmmm
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