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Post by davidzg on Nov 8, 2005 15:53:38 GMT 1
Just because you're in Croatia doesn't mean you have to folow Croatian traditions. haha, yeah right. Croatians are so welcoming toward other traditions in their own country. I bring crackers and stupid little hats, that is about as far as I can go. Plus I can't cook and my mother in law is a fantastic cook. Nobody can make bakalar taste good. I think people enjoy Christmas much more in England, they certainly go out more, I guess in Croatia it is a more spiritual and religious event. In England we drink and have fun.
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Post by noddy on Nov 8, 2005 16:58:51 GMT 1
glen, i don't know the answer to your question (why bakalar is tradition in croatia), i thought i'd ask some people who might know the answer today, but forgot. i will. david, i'm not sure i agree with you, i don't think people enjoy christmas any less here. the shops aren't all decorated in november, true, and it's still not as commercialized as in england (although approaching quickly), but ENJOYING, as a subjective experience.... i don't think it's any less intense than in england. i understand you miss england and christmases you're used to and maybe you're not enjoying it as you used to.... but i'd say these are your own feelings.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 8, 2005 18:03:45 GMT 1
glen, i don't know the answer to your question (why bakalar is tradition in croatia), i thought i'd ask some people who might know the answer today, but forgot. i will. david, i'm not sure i agree with you, i don't think people enjoy christmas any less here. the shops aren't all decorated in november, true, and it's still not as commercialized as in england (although approaching quickly), but ENJOYING, as a subjective experience.... i don't think it's any less intense than in england. i understand you miss england and christmases you're used to and maybe you're not enjoying it as you used to.... but i'd say these are your own feelings. It is nothing to do with missing England, people make more effort in England, adults look forward to it for a long time, people party more, relax more. There are more lights, people really decorate their houses, when I was a child I remember people decorating their whole houses, snowmen on the roof, flashing lights everywhere etc, ok it is tacky, but it is also fun. It is more fun, in Croatia it still remains largely a religious ceremony, which for an atheist like me is not all that interesting.
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Post by gavul on Nov 8, 2005 18:19:19 GMT 1
Bakalar is traditionaly eaten on christmas eve, because its a meat free day in Catholic religion. Personaly I am thankful that people here aren't wasting small fortunes on decorating there houses in Watt sucking lights and animatroninc santas. I like the less commered christmas that they have here, although I did miss the gravy and roast potatoes.
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Nov 8, 2005 18:31:26 GMT 1
And what exactly is Christmas, David? Your attitude reflects the kind of Crhristmas that is celebrated in UK now. Getting drunk and making a fool of yourself at the Christmas office party, running yourself into even higher debt just to be able to buy presents for people you don't even like, obligatory Christmas lunch with the family, and the large anticlimax in January when you realise there is just about enough money to see you to the end of the month. Spend next six months repaying the debt and the ever-increasing interest on your credit card. That's all there is to it, I'm afraid. 90% of the people go through this frenzy without a single thought of Jesus entering their mind. I'm sure you'll dismiss everything I just said and still claim english Christmas is better, but the truth remains that it is a purely commercial holiday devoid of any religious or spiritual meaning. Meaningless and empty.
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Post by noddy on Nov 8, 2005 18:59:30 GMT 1
gav, i know why fish is eaten on christmas eve, but i don't know why codfish (bakalar). it's not a fish that can be found in adriatic sea, as far as i know.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 8, 2005 19:19:00 GMT 1
And what exactly is Christmas, David? Your attitude reflects the kind of Crhristmas that is celebrated in UK now. Getting drunk and making a fool of yourself at the Christmas office party, running yourself into even higher debt just to be able to buy presents for people you don't even like, obligatory Christmas lunch with the family, and the large anticlimax in January when you realise there is just about enough money to see you to the end of the month. Spend next six months repaying the debt and the ever-increasing interest on your credit card. That's all there is to it, I'm afraid. 90% of the people go through this frenzy without a single thought of Jesus entering their mind. I'm sure you'll dismiss everything I just said and still claim english Christmas is better, but the truth remains that it is a purely commercial holiday devoid of any religious or spiritual meaning. Meaningless and empty. Yup sounds great, can't wait
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Post by davidzg on Nov 8, 2005 19:19:57 GMT 1
gav, i know why fish is eaten on christmas eve, but i don't know why codfish (bakalar). it's not a fish that can be found in adriatic sea, as far as i know. Noddy, as far as I know Bakalar is a catholic thing, I know they eat it in portugal.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 8, 2005 19:25:36 GMT 1
And what exactly is Christmas, David? Your attitude reflects the kind of Crhristmas that is celebrated in UK now. Getting drunk and making a fool of yourself at the Christmas office party, running yourself into even higher debt just to be able to buy presents for people you don't even like, obligatory Christmas lunch with the family, and the large anticlimax in January when you realise there is just about enough money to see you to the end of the month. Spend next six months repaying the debt and the ever-increasing interest on your credit card. That's all there is to it, I'm afraid. 90% of the people go through this frenzy without a single thought of Jesus entering their mind. I'm sure you'll dismiss everything I just said and still claim english Christmas is better, but the truth remains that it is a purely commercial holiday devoid of any religious or spiritual meaning. Meaningless and empty. Bob I already explained I am atheist, I fear god about as much as I fear the Croatian police. I wont rant on about my personal opinions known on religion as I know it is a sensitive subject and I am sure it will offend and upset a lot of people. Needles to say, religion has not been good for Croatia in recent history. Christmas is a great tradition, regardless of its origins. I will enjoy my Christmas, I will treat my family to lavish gifts because I enjoy treating them, I certainly don't feel obligated. I will see my family and friends that I don't see often enough. I wont be penniless in January but thanks for your concern. The simple fact is most people have more fun in England than they will in Croatia.
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Nov 8, 2005 21:41:48 GMT 1
You illustrate my point so beautifully!
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Post by z00ey on Nov 8, 2005 21:56:46 GMT 1
bakalar - codfish - none in the adriatic, so it used to be imported... christmas eve - in catholicism one is supposed not to eat meat, so fish is the answer... so, the tradition is to eat fish, it needn't be bakalar, BUT, as bakalar used to be expensive (imported) rather than home catch of ie zubatac or orada, better off households in dalmatia had bakalar on their table... and then everybody of course wanted to have bakalar as a showoff... i side with david, bakalar is not a thing i want to eat ever, let alone christmas eve, so our family has other fish and everybody i talk to in christmas night envies me get your punica to change to another fish, or even calamari, as they tend to be best around that time of year. we usually have hobotnica salad (octopus), lignje with potatoes from the oven, and a zubatac or orada or sanpjer from the oven... also a good scampi dish goes... and in case we go to my punac house for christmas eve, we get the best fish paprikash (osijek)., 3 types of fish: saran, stuka and som, but beware, all fish must be caught by fishermen, if it came from fish farms it is fat and smells really bad.
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croam
Full Member
Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Nov 8, 2005 22:13:08 GMT 1
David, why don't you just grow some jaje and tell your mother in law your not a fan of bakalar and ask her to cook an alternative for you. Or you can stay in a miserable situation and vent your frustrations on this site. I guess it's a lifestyle choice. )
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Post by davidzg1 on Nov 8, 2005 23:04:34 GMT 1
You illustrate my point so beautifully! Nonsense, just another everything is better in Croatia, Croat.
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Post by davidzg1 on Nov 8, 2005 23:09:08 GMT 1
bakalar - codfish - none in the adriatic, so it used to be imported... christmas eve - in catholicism one is supposed not to eat meat, so fish is the answer... so, the tradition is to eat fish, it needn't be bakalar, BUT, as bakalar used to be expensive (imported) rather than home catch of ie zubatac or orada, better off households in dalmatia had bakalar on their table... and then everybody of course wanted to have bakalar as a showoff... i side with david, bakalar is not a thing i want to eat ever, let alone christmas eve, so our family has other fish and everybody i talk to in christmas night envies me get your punica to change to another fish, or even calamari, as they tend to be best around that time of year. we usually have hobotnica salad (octopus), lignje with potatoes from the oven, and a zubatac or orada or sanpjer from the oven... also a good scampi dish goes... and in case we go to my punac house for christmas eve, we get the best fish paprikash (osijek)., 3 types of fish: saran, stuka and som, but beware, all fish must be caught by fishermen, if it came from fish farms it is fat and smells really bad. Do people eat that at xmas? I love fish and I also love bakalar (cod) fish, but that the way it is prepared at xmas. Most codfish comes from Iceland and other northern seas now, even in the uk, our stocks are exhausted.
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Post by davidzg1 on Nov 8, 2005 23:09:58 GMT 1
David, why don't you just grow some jaje and tell your mother in law your not a fan of bakalar and ask her to cook an alternative for you. Or you can stay in a miserable situation and vent your frustrations on this site. I guess it's a lifestyle choice. ) I have jaje like cocunuts, but you haven't seen my mother-in-law.
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