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Post by janjohansen on Nov 14, 2005 9:03:13 GMT 1
How nice to see that the season of goodwill is approaching. Happy Christmas to everyone. On that note, I think gav said in one of his posts that you need to make friends, locals and others, to be happy wherever you are. That is so true. I believe you cannot be happy if you deal in "facts" only and exclude emotions as someone else said, after all we're all emotional creatures as proved by the many emotional responses here. Happiness is the goal most worth pursuing in life which I'm sure most people agree. However there are many paths to happiness and we might disagree about how to achieve happiness. My take on this is that "facts" and "emotions" are not contradictions, in "fact" they are closely related, "emotions" are children of "facts" and as such someone's "facts" should be presented in a way that are in its children's best interest. Finally, apart from finding pipastro's statement wrong, it's also offensive and probably counter productive to business. The Scandinavian management thesis is: You are a worker, and you work for me, it is your labour that feed my family. Without you we would starve and have even less "business teeth" than we have now. No wonder that most Scandinavians (workers and management) are a happy and sucessful lot Again Happy Christmas to everyone from a happy Norwegian in lovely Croatia. Jan
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Post by pipastro on Nov 14, 2005 11:24:10 GMT 1
Jan, you might not have read that Volvo (a great scandinavian company) is firing 3500 of its workers - right before christmas!
Emotions cloud business judgement, and with a clouded judgement whatever business choices you make are inherently flawed.
In Scandanavia people work hard and you have a communal economic mode that is a co-operative one. A worker is much more honest there than in Croatia. Here workers often take sick leave when they are not even sick, and here the company pays - in other European countries it is the state that pays sick leave.
Tax rates (cumilative) are virtually the same, though here the firm must pay additional hidden taxes, which basically rob the company of both working capital and profit margin. With a very low profit margin what is the attraction for doing business here?
Remember that capital is free to go anywhere and therefore Croatia competes with many other countries around the world for FDI. It is the return of investment and the business culture that pulls business in and makes it worthwhile. Croatia is currently a beggar, not a chooser. It is in these areas that Croatia must improve and stimulate new business here. Also laws which protect workers, even when they are fraudently abusing the system, must be ammended and made corruption proof. Workers here must also understand that doing a 9-5pm mean working 9-5pm and not sneaking off to have coffee using the company phone to call their friends mobiles and reading the news paper.
Workers here think that a job is their right, and one simple question sorts cro workers out:
"what do you do to improve the profitibility of the company?"
I always ask that when they come asking for a payrise after working only a month. Usually they cant even answer and it is only their lethargy and greed. Ask them to do something and they suddenly become sick and incapable of work!
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Post by pipastro on Nov 14, 2005 11:29:11 GMT 1
On another note, I worked in Aberdeen, Scotland for a few years.
There are many Norwegien Oil companies that have rigs out on the North Sea. They also do supply and Pipe work.
When it comes down to the dirty and dangerous work they prefer to exploit workers from less developed countries and pay them 30% of what they pay their fellow Norwegiens.
You can check the details for yourself.
Oh, and one of the countries they exploit is Croatia, they have quite a few Croatians working on the rigs and it is those very Croatians that they pay so poorly.
I think in general the nordic mode of business is a good one, but business is business and you are not immune to it, nor can you ride the high horse when you are as guilty of the very same things you say are bad.
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sabi
New Member
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Post by sabi on Nov 14, 2005 14:00:06 GMT 1
What happened to the Christmas is approaching thread that was started....I sometimes wish that there were a few more females on this website...maybe, just maybe it would add a little variety to the comments.....but maybe not..I like the sound of Jan Johansen though. I hope that you keep coming here to this website, maybe we should start an alternative one for happy and positive people...I am fascinated at your life here, where you are living etc etc. This website sometimes fills me with dread at living in Croatia but it is always amusing, so that in itself is a good thing and good therapy.
Hope that you are all having a good day.
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Post by Bobs on Nov 14, 2005 14:08:47 GMT 1
Sabi, there are quite a few of us female posters here. However, lately the board has been disrupted by a very arrogant individual who thinks this is the place to vent out his frustrations. Pay no attention to those people, thier misery is purely of their own making. heir own making.
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croam
Full Member
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Post by croam on Nov 14, 2005 14:34:06 GMT 1
my dad has never been able to fully enjoy Christmas in the US because it is so commercialized and all about money and gifts. People in the US undergo serious stress from a month before Christmas...shopping, fretting what to get for who. They spend, on average, close to a month's Croatian average salary on gifts.
When my dad was growing up in Jugo they exchanged fruit and nuts for Christmas. They even heated their beds by putting a heated brick in their beds.
That was a long time ago of course.
Its too early for this Christmas thread anyway. I'm keeping my tree up all year now to protest the commercialzation of Christmas. I will also keep Christmas lawn ornaments year round even during the sweltering summer months here. Wouldn't that be funny?
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Nov 14, 2005 14:53:30 GMT 1
Croam, do shops in US start selling Christmas stuff from September, like they do in UK?
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 14, 2005 18:04:18 GMT 1
Thanks sabi for your kind words. pipastro, no I haven't read about the Volvo situation and feel sorry for those who lose their jobs and their families. However I'm sure that both Volvo and the authorities of our brothers in the east have provided a safety net with small holes to assist them in this difficult transitional period.Regarding "Emotions cloud business judgement", I dare say that you have never taken an emotionless decision. You have been either happy/unhappy, doubtful/sure, proud/shameful etc. and/or anything in between a range of emotions for every decision you have taken. Acknowledging this, it's not too much to ask for that those who are affected by your descions at the sharp end, namely your workers, respond accordingly. For this reason alone it's important to understand that your workers are your greatest asset (whether they are good or not) because without them none of your other assets such as machinery, IT systems and other technical gear will work. This is also both the reason why your workers should be regarded as assets and the reason why you should invest equally (if not more) in your greatest assets compared to your investment in your other none emotional assets. As a conclusion to this part I will add that the only inherent flaw in your judgement is getting your facts wrong and your emotions wrong, getting them both right will enhance your business. Having said all this I do respect all of you who start up business and create jobs here, provided you treat your workers as your most valuable asset and act accordingly. pipastro I do know that Croatia must compete for business like any other nation, but the fact that you and others have started up here must be because you have found it worthwhile. I here hope that your assessment of it being worthwhile is based upon normal business ethics and not on exploitation of the workers and/or the system. The latter has no place in legitimate business. Of course Rome wasn't built in one day, but a little step at the time in the right direction will contribute towards Croatia's future prosperity as opposed to a step in the wrong direction. I know that those very few who nowadays suffer from a colonial hangover due to the colonial drink (I don't mean pink gin at Raffles) they drink every day find this an alien concept. Finally to your last post, yes you are right that off-shore companies exploit workers of various nationalities.. Though Norway also here is the least evil of a bad bunch, I do sincerely disagree with this practice and am thoroughly ashamed of it. Let's hope that off-shore contracts by by Norwegian companies will be brought in-line with the main land where such contracts are banned by legislation. After all this rambling on, it's only remains to say that I'm fully aware of that there is at least 3 opinions; yours, mine and the right one since according to Christian belief it's roughly 2000 years since the miracle of being 100% right happened. Yeah Christmas is indeed approaching. Jan
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Post by pipastro on Nov 14, 2005 18:26:12 GMT 1
I do agree that workers are important.
But they can also be a liability as they can be an asset.
If the 2 groups, management and workers work together, it can be very successful, but it needs trust, long term vision, honesty and hard work.
My only point is that many workers here are none of those things. This may be because of Cro being ex-communist and workers views about jobs are different to yours and mine.
I believe in egalitarianism and I think it is a worthy ideal.
But as I said, it takes 2 sides to work together, and all I ever hear is I want more cash, I am sick, I have to take a day off, I want to go on holiday during the busiest period of the year.
I tried to incentivize workers with share ownership, but all they want is more and more cash. Its short term ism and greed which are both ugly and non beneficial for themselves. They alos believe that the laws (and it is mainly true) will protect them even when they are wrong.
The difference between Croatia and Slovenia is great, there, doing the same business I have no worries and I don't need to check the numbers all the time to see who is stealing.
Croatia should look to that model and they will then experience the fruit of their labors.
I personally cant wait for Xmas!
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Post by Anna on Nov 14, 2005 18:27:56 GMT 1
Can we get back on topic, please.
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sabi
New Member
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Post by sabi on Nov 14, 2005 19:11:25 GMT 1
Thanks Bobs and Jan....
I cannot decide whether to stay here for Xmas or go back to London and time is flying by so quickly...actually, I am always a bit nervous of flying around this time of year, the flights are jammed pack, the weather is often bad which means that take off and landing are often a bit dicey and actually, I think that I might get a shock by all those mad London crowds after so much more quiet a pace here in Croatia. Actually, I am trying to find out about a few days break away from Zagreb, I would be looking for a nice B and B somewhere by the coast or on an island...not too far a drive away from Zagreb. Does anyone know of anything or can recommend something that would be open around the festive period...I am having to do my own investigations....that might clinch it for me staying here. Thank you.
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Post by pipastro on Nov 14, 2005 19:27:14 GMT 1
go to london - are you mad?
or dubrovnik, thats the only nice option. A lesser alternative would be to go to one of the natural spas
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Nov 14, 2005 20:02:58 GMT 1
Opatija is always nice during Christmas / New Year's time. All the hotels are full and lively. Last year my husband and I stayed in Villa Astra in Lovran during the festive season. It's a small luxury hotel and I thoroughly recommend it to anyone looking for a special place to stay and excellent food. Not sure what kind of budget you have in mind, but if you want to treat yourself, Villa Astra is a very good choice.
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Post by leptira on Nov 14, 2005 21:08:09 GMT 1
do shops in US start selling Christmas stuff from September, like they do in UK? Yes, especially Walmart. They start selling christmas in July. I hate going shopping during the holiday season it takes hours to find a parking spot sometimes people even argue with eachother about them. Many children get so many toys they don't know what to do with them all!! They use them once and move on. Too much.
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Post by pipastro on Nov 14, 2005 21:20:15 GMT 1
what about Toys R Us - that place is terrible year round! At Christmas there are stampedes.
Makes me happy they dont have one in Croatia, though with only Nama to rival them here its not surprising there are no christmas rushes.
That and after you pay there are those stupid ques for the security to inspect your bag (in Metero etc). Its like they think all the people are thieves and you need to show your receipt. I always tell the guy to bugger off, imagine doing that at tesco in the UK!??
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