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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 1:59:31 GMT 1
Anna has suddenly become very draconian.
I'd like to say that the best thing about this site is the debating and hot discussion of alternate view points.
Certainly it gets a bit silly here and there, but it is part of the discussion.
Many people read the debates and like them, it pulls viewers and makes people laugh.
There are many problems with Croatia, with working and living here. We rant a little but it gets the frustration out and then we can laugh at it.
Banning people, or demoting them (like me) is not the solution.
What you need is a members area where we can have a good jolly argument, without rudeness, but allowing freedom to be intellectually spicy.
I have read some of your posts Anna and there are a few in which you sound quite harsh. On others you were authoritarian. A moderator must not take sides, rather it is a moderators job to shape the discussion and make sure it does not get out of hand.
Many discussions here evolve into others. A discussion is alive and develops and adapts, being so restrictive is stifling and dulls the discussion.
Croatia has as many pluses and it has minuses. You cant be objective and expect there to be only positive commentary.
Potential visitors and investors need to know the truth, and you have to trust that they have enough intelligence to disseminate what the truth is in the chats.
So why don't you make a 'free for all debate' area and then we are happy and you are happy. Readers and other people will also be happy, as they don't need to read our chats unless they specifically want to or want to join in.
Do the right thing!
Pip - the one and only 5-star general
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 2:06:56 GMT 1
yes, yes ... easy to speak brave words, when you know that Anna is probably sleeping now.
;D
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 2:16:20 GMT 1
I thought I was quite mature
Dont you?
I have refrained from writing any more provocative things on visit cro
but this was a true and needed viewpoint.
Wouldnt you enjoy a place where we can all have lively chats? Without affecting non-combatents.
Who else but a 5 star General could be brave!
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Post by davidzg on Nov 19, 2005 2:20:24 GMT 1
We cannot have lively debate because of one reason. If you make up rubbish and pretend everything in Croatia is perfect then you're a hero, loved and admired by many. If you speak the truth, showing both good and BAD sides, you're an enemy of the state. Pippo I truly wish you had been able to converse with ghostwriter a banned user.
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 2:23:49 GMT 1
Many of us made few stars on Ghostwriter and emiz, haven't we ?
Good old times ... ehhhh ...
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 2:27:56 GMT 1
Who were these 2: Ghostwriter and emiz?
Are they in purgatory now?
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 2:34:51 GMT 1
Who were these 2: Ghostwriter and emiz? Are they in purgatory now? Since I decided to not jepardise my stars ... I can't give you honnest answer ... Sorry, I hope you understand. ;D
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 2:36:29 GMT 1
Well I am still new here - cant be bad just to say who they were?
Croam keeps saying I am emiz so Id like to know who this mysterious person is.
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 2:53:43 GMT 1
Well I am still new here - cant be bad just to say who they were? Croam keeps saying I am emiz so Id like to know who this mysterious person is. Asking "who is emiz", is same as asking Master Joda "where does force come from" ... As old member of this forum I can only tell you - you will know when it comes to you. Patience, young one ... patience ... it comes with stars ...
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 8:31:30 GMT 1
Hi pip
"Who else but a 5 star General could be brave!"
You mean like General Haig decribed by blackadder as 50 miles behind the front line expending thousands of the rank and files like David just to move his bar cabinet 6 inches closer to Berlin. ;D Jan
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 8:43:14 GMT 1
Hi David
"If you speak the truth, showing both good and BAD sides, you're an enemy of the state."
You mean having balanced views like yours, 2 good sides with Croatia and 20.000 BAD sides. ;D Jan PS! Perhaps there is a clue in the fact that you're spelling BAD with captial letters.
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Post by irac on Nov 19, 2005 9:26:47 GMT 1
Jan, how can a perosn be balanced supporting the club they do. With their support and potency they could be challenging the big boys week in week out, but hey prefer to torture the poor souls who pay their wages. Poor ghost, it's sad they're gone, but then again, they were slandering and saying rotten stufff, so they had to go. ROG, I've not forgotten, expect an email from the frozen wastes today, all will be explained as it was to Gav (still no news).
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 12:05:47 GMT 1
truths and lies are different for everyone. who's going to be the judge of that ? 3 of us can say the drinking water here is very clean. 1 of us can say it's not. who's telling the truth ? all of us agree that corruption is widespread here all of us agree that taxes are restrictive and you don't seem to get much for them. we all agree that social welfare is not very good. most of us will agree that the violent crime rate is quite low.
most of us agree on all the measurable bad things, but when we list the things that we like, only one of us will say it's all rubbish and not a worthy opinion.
The moderator doesn't have the time to deal with that all the time I'm sure, so she weeds out the non relevant silly comments and things she regards as abusive or racist. Generaly she will let a thread wander off topic, and only interfere if someone takes a ridiculous turn against the traffic and tries to dominate a discussion by pronouncing their opinion as the only valid one and labeling all others as liers and hippys with hidden agendas for promoting the good side of croatia. The fact is a lot of us can see and enjoy the good side, we like to talk about it for no other reason than the fact it's something we personaly like. Having spent a lot of time reading and writing on here, I can honestly say that mostly the people on here don't mind discussing the bad things either, when the discussion is conducted in a reasonable manner. I've posted things that have been out of line and had them deleted. Fare enough, I can admit I was out of line. I even delete some of my own comments after realising that I've written something out of line. You need to be able to have some perspective on what your saying and how you're saying it. Then you can express your points without getting deleted or demoted (oooh that is funny you have to admit). Pip, you just started off badly because you simply came on to stir things up, and not to offer your thoughts in a constructive manner. I think you're ready to give it a proper go now. Lets see how you go. You can still have a bit of fun, I manage to.
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Post by mark2 on Nov 19, 2005 12:10:05 GMT 1
truths and lies are different for everyone. who's going to be the judge of that ? 3 of us can say the drinking water here is very clean. 1 of us can say it's not. who's telling the truth ? all of us agree that corruption is widespread here all of us agree that taxes are restrictive and you don't seem to get much for them. we all agree that social welfare is not very good. most of us will agree that the violent crime rate is quite low. most of us agree on all the measurable bad things, but when we list the things that we like, only one of us will say it's all rubbish and not a worthy opinion. The moderator doesn't have the time to deal with that all the time I'm sure, so she weeds out the non relevant silly comments and things she regards as abusive or racist. Generaly she will let a thread wander off topic, and only interfere if someone takes a ridiculous turn against the traffic and tries to dominate a discussion by pronouncing their opinion as the only valid one and labeling all others as liers and hippys with hidden agendas for promoting the good side of croatia. The fact is a lot of us can see and enjoy the good side, we like to talk about it for no other reason than the fact it's something we personaly like. Having spent a lot of time reading and writing on here, I can honestly say that mostly the people on here don't mind discussing the bad things either, when the discussion is conducted in a reasonable manner. I've posted things that have been out of line and had them deleted. Fare enough, I can admit I was out of line. I even delete some of my own comments after realising that I've written something out of line. You need to be able to have some perspective on what your saying and how you're saying it. Then you can express your points without getting deleted or demoted (oooh that is funny you have to admit). Pip, you just started off badly because you simply came on to stir things up, and not to offer your thoughts in a constructive manner. I think you're ready to give it a proper go now. Lets see how you go. You can still have a bit of fun, I manage to. I was going to say that!
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 13:20:44 GMT 1
Gav you can have 2 kinds of debate.
One type is like parliament in the UK, were they are verbose, prolonged and dull.
Another type is like Jerry Springer - more working class, emotional, but more lively.
Jerry always pulls a bigger audience than parliament, and it is more or less the same on here.
My point is that you should be free to make comments about english people and rubber etc, but i should be able to make comments about croats, aussies etc.
At the moment this is not possible because the powers that be are gagging me and I have to be nice. You have admittted that you have been naughty but you have not been punished, and the reason for that? Ajd pogodi!
This thread was started to say that there should be a members zone - to read and post - where we can be free.
Admitadly for Anna, casual visitors might not want to read my or croams comments. BUt if I am attacked I should be able to respond. All that is allowed in one direction (pro cro) must be allowed on the other (anti cro) - with the caveat or not swearing or threatening someone.
I didnt come on here to stir, but I did say things that I have experience of. On the whole, I have had more bad experiences here, but that doesnt mean that it is a bad place. But I think when it comes to Croatian builders and professionalism, we should be realistic and honest and say that it is awful here, while on the other side saying positives - not service - but in things like natural beauty, nice parks in ZG, walking by the Sava etc.
Its like apples and pears, pears may be great here but the apples might not. Just coz the pears are we cant say the apples are too, they are not the same things. Stating negatives in one particular thread is isolated and irrelevent to another.
It is that freedom that is essential.
Without it we are just advertising tools for Anna writing nice stuff to sell property and holidays. If we are that then I prefer not to be on here and to start writing a blog or talking someplace else.
'Be cool be pip!'
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