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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 13:34:50 GMT 1
On a side note:
Violent crime here is on the rise.
Armed robbery happens every week and last month a few security guards were killed at FINA.
Joe and I had a run in with skin heads and I have a nice scar across my eye for it.
The thing is, that is not representative of most Croatians, but since the war there has been a migration from a welcoming pro foreigner culture to a anti-foreigner one.
In the old days no one used to stare at me and make comments, but now it is very common.
Although I am much more Croatian than you Gav, I am much less welcomed, and that is the main reason that I have some negative view points. People in Cro are becoming xenophobic with a 'superiorist' culture - unless you are of arian blood. Many Croatians openly support Hitler and have nostalgia relating to the WW2 days, saying it would have been better if Germany won.
Ask any black or Arab people their views. I was with Joe and we went to look at a property to let for his client. The guy said he prefered Germans but he didnt want any Arabs as they smell and they cook with too much oil - and that would damage his kitchen. He also said he didnt want turks, while at the same time he was saying the house was empty and he needed the cash badly to pay the mortgage. But he'd rather default than rent to an arab.
And the biggest irony? He said that in front of me! (BTW Im not Black or Arab and have no probs with anyone because of race or religion).
None of what Ive said in this comment is a lie, and I swear to its truthes, also as people were with me to confirm what happened.
Now I feel restricted, it this a bad comment? Will it be erased? Will it offend anyone? BUt it is true and the truth hurts.
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 13:41:36 GMT 1
You have the freedom to do all that here pip, it's just that most of your initial 60 posts were irelevant and crap designed just to wind people up and gather more stars to your name, you told me yourself that you thought it was boring and needed spicing up. Had the majority of your posts been sensible level headed and useful, I doubt you would have been demoted. If you don't want to be here, then there is this other great site that you would love, because the moderator does not moderate at all. It's called ARGUE CROATIA and you'll find it here. www.5wwwww5.com/forum/index.php?mforum=arguecroatiaYou might find some familiar names there. I hope you stay here though, now you know the boundaries. It's Anas site, she can do what she likes with it as far as I'm concerned. It's like Croatia itself, if you don't like it, leave it if you can.
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 13:50:15 GMT 1
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 13:56:31 GMT 1
I don't know for sure, you'd have to ask the person who originaly posted the link in the 'is someone missing' thread. I think it was 'aga'
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 13:59:14 GMT 1
I will have a look. You have to admit Gav, I down tuned my posts and you messaged me asking what happened and you wanted them spiced up! I did say it needed spicing up. And to be honest it does. Anna does own the site, but without interesting contributions there is no reason to come to the site. Without our content there would be little to read. I have contributed a lot of content, some good and some not quite so good. I helped on how to get from RI to LJ, with the TV PAL systems (I was the first that explained them), Sattelite TV and I have writted many many nice comments yesterday.... my fingers are bleeding My negatives were regarding business, corruption, unlawful monopolies, rudeness and bad workmanship. They were all true. The comments to croam were childish but he started first, with the let the serbs kill the slovene etc commentary. Before he started I didnt attack anyone. The argue site is no good as there is no croam. But if you take croam away and me away and dave away its just becomes the boring middle ground. I have been mailing around asking about those 2 characters who dissapeared, heard that Anna's husband wanted to fight Emiz!? BUt her hubbie didnt turn up for the big event! When you hear that can you think am I that bad? Gav you also know me in real life, I like to laugh and I am generally a happy person, but even you have some negative views even though you dont admit them on here.
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 14:01:47 GMT 1
Pipo, I agree with you saying some people are xenophobic here. I am "blaming" ruralisation" (or " tibalisation") for this, together with few other factors. It is actually one long story.
Fortunately, it is not spreading much wider inside society, because same what such people think about foreigners, they think about other Croats, and civil society started to "fight back".
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 14:09:06 GMT 1
the biggest irony is that i am not a foreigner, i am actually croatian!
its the superficial people and their opinions here that bother me.
it happens in when i am in the tram, when i go in a local small shop......
many croatians that went overseas integrated with other cultures.
e.g
* croatian with a black wife in south africa
* croatian with indian wife in peru/argentina
* croatian with middle eastern wife in london
all their kids - are they croatian? Of course they are but here people spit on them and make nasty comments thinking they are superior and then they say that they came back only to rob the local croatians.
this while at the same time croatians invite bosnians and hercegovinans saying they are real croats...... it just stinks of racism and xenophobia.
I never get that in london, and to all the english people i am english, no matter what race, color, religion i have. here its the complete opposite and that is a bad thing
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 14:10:34 GMT 1
ooops, i am only allowed to write nice things, please disregard the above comments.
soooooooooooory!
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 14:14:58 GMT 1
I do have some negative views, and if you look back through past posts, I have agreed with a lot of the negative things about croatia. I see no need in repeating them constantly though. There is Croam on that other site, but i think that whole site could be a sham. I don't know where you got the info that Annas husband wanted to fight emiz. It was emiz who was constantly inviting people down to the Billa carpark in novi zagreb at 3am. He even invited me down there, I said I would meet him on the main square if he wanted, but he declined to reveal himself in a public place. Probably because he was pretending to be someone he wasn't the whole time, which he later admitted.
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 14:20:34 GMT 1
I have no idea, I dont know who he is or what happened before I joined.
But my comments above about racism etc are valid.
My point is its true, and if you come to live here and youre black youll have lots of issues as you will if you are arab, chinese, indian......
with you being caucasion - you have a much nicer experience than the above named groups.
even you have to admit that is true.
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 14:24:44 GMT 1
Pipo ... I am not foreigner, and I look very "Croatian" ;D ... But between such people, I am kind of foreigner too, and mostly treated as "suspicious one".
Actually it is funny when you face them as Croat (what I am - one of few who doesn't need anything "to prove it"), and then see what a bunch of dirt and basically fears stand behind this "masks made of arrogance".
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 14:37:02 GMT 1
Hi pip
I agree with you everyone should be allowed to express their opinions and share their experiences as long as they accept that others may have different opinions and experiences. I'm sure that gav agrees too. However when people make blanket statements like: everywhere in Croatia, every Croat, every builder etc. it's offensive for the very reason that it totally disregard other people's experiences in addition to be a blatant lie since none of us here or anywhere else have been everywhere in Croatia, knows every Croat or have had experiences with every builder. How arrogant is it to dismiss other people's experiences as lies as some have done here, how do they know? I fully accept that quite a few people have had bad experiences here in Croatia but that is their personal experiences and nothing more. I have had good experiences here, that of course is my peronal experiences and I have no right to dismiss anyone who have had different experiences as liers. Dalmatia is known for having stone, ceramics and porcelain workers with a skill that in my experience is difficult to find in other places. What an offence some of the comments regarding workers made here is to those workers I have employed. It's not rocket science to understand that different people can have different experiences and sometimes the experiences we have may be influenced by our attitude. Only my opinion and nothing more. Jan
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 14:45:42 GMT 1
I agree that there is racism here, but to be fare a lot of things that seem like racism are perhaps simply because people are just not used to coloured people here. Hardly any live here, and very few visit. I myself was shocked when I moved here and my girlfreind used the word n.g..er in reference to a black person. I told her off, and then she explained that she meant nothing bad by it, but people here are only exposed to that culture on the tv where they call each other by that name. So that's what she called them too. Since being educated on the matter, she has stopped using that word. People stare at people who look different to them on the street here because they are just not used to seeing them, it's still a rarity. Obviously that's not the case all the time, but it's wrong to presume that everyone that stares at you in the street is doing so because they are racist. Racism is everywhere, there's no denying it. I'm white, I will never truly know what it will feel like otherwise, even though I have been to countries that are majority black.
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 14:49:32 GMT 1
yes indeed.
Its wrong to say all croatains...... but you could say most croatian builders i have had experiences with are...xyz.
on the other hand it is also wrong to say ALL people in croatia are nice, happy, honest, serve well with a smile...... because that is also not true. Service on the seaside is usually much better as there is more exposure to foreigners, in Zagreb the general level of service is low. That is a true statement, but because i say something like that I should not suffer repercussions or insults about putting me in a woodchipper. Certainly I should not loose my stars and have a label that i am offensive and childish for saying that.
the point of this thread is that you can express yourself and that should be allowed. I have not been rude or insulting or childish, but i still get the feeling that I will get banned for not always being positive. that is not nice, as i should be encouraged to share my experiences (whatever they are) as that is the purpose of the site - information and reference
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 15:00:16 GMT 1
You won't get banned for not always being positive. Emiz never got banned and nor has David. I guess Anna just had enough of the petty bickering that even I am partly responsible for. Someone had to be held up as an example, and you were the easy choice I guess. Sve u redu sad covjek
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