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Post by keepsmiling on Jun 19, 2008 21:15:45 GMT 1
I am sure no one is being personal but sometimes things were said in this forum which turned out to be simply chit chat. We have all had a string of bad experiences & my attitude is "believe it when it happens". And don't hold your breath.
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Post by Aleksandra on Jun 19, 2008 21:36:53 GMT 1
I have to say that our experience is similar to Carol's. Where an application was properly prepared, it took a bit less than 6 months. In other cases where something was forgotten or done in the wrong order, then it took (or still takes!) longer. Although in general we would recommend our client to use independent solicitor to avoid any conflict of interest with the seller, the advantage of in-house solicitor has proven to be a properly prepared application as they had much more experiences in dealing with foreign purchases. From your experience....are you talking about properties bought 4 years ago? No, we did not exist four years ago. I am talking about permissions applied for in the last 18 months. From what I know from our partner agencies in Croatia and also from what I have seen on this board, it appears that permissions applied longer time ago (when the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was in charge of permissions), are hit the hardest with regards to wait time. It appears that newly prepared permissions that are applied directly to MoJ are dealt with faster whereas the backlog from MFA is taking longer to resolve. |
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Post by josip123 on Jun 19, 2008 21:40:10 GMT 1
From your experience....are you talking about properties bought 4 years ago? No, we did not exist four years ago. I am talking about permissions applied for in the last 18 months. From what I know from our partner agencies in Croatia and also from what I have seen on this board, it appears that permissions applied longer time ago (when the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was in charge of permissions), are hit the hardest with regards to wait time. It appears that newly prepared permissions that are applied directly to MoJ are dealt with faster whereas the backlog from MFA is taking longer to resolve. Exactly what I am talking about gossip and hearsay (From what I have seen on these boards........it appears! etc etc) and free advertising |
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Post by Aleksandra on Jun 19, 2008 21:52:54 GMT 1
I am really sorry you have bad time with your residency etc, but there is no need to take this out on people here who are trying to be helpful. This is not a legal board and it is up to a person reading posts to decide how to take information written here. No-one is trying to deceive anybody here. At least information posted on this board may point a person in some sort of direction when doing their own research on the subject  And you always have a choice to ignore what is written here. |
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Post by josip123 on Jun 19, 2008 21:59:40 GMT 1
I am really sorry you have bad time with your residency etc, but there is no need to take this out on people here who are trying to be helpful. This is not a legal board and it is up to a person reading posts to decide how to take information written here. No-one is trying to deceive anybody here. At least information posted on this board may point a person in some sort of direction when doing their own research on the subject And you always have a choice to ignore what is written here. WRONG! Both you and Carol are making statements which you cant back up, youre both advertising your estate agencies and therefore people will assume what you say is the law and that you know what you are talking about.....which you don;t And by the way my "residency etc" has nothing to do with it, I know exactly how to handle the situation and I am keeping readers informed of my FACTS |
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Post by sarah1 on Jun 19, 2008 22:37:45 GMT 1
Aleksandra is totally right - people who read these boards can always choose to ignore what is written on them. No one is forcing anyone to accept what is written here.
For example [based on the evidence from my reading of these boards], I don't accept the statement that Carol doesn't know what she is talking about.
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Post by Aleksandra on Jun 19, 2008 22:48:52 GMT 1
Three years ago one of my employees told me about it. It seemed a long way off then and as you know the law can change so I didn't rely on it. But then a lawyer who does a lot of work with the MoJ told me the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I think she said Feb 2009, but I'm not certain and it could have been April (we were talking about a few things). I think the land registries will be inundated when word of this gets out. Hi Carol, your information (see above) is correct. The information you have heard from the lawyer that deals with MoJ came from "Stabilisation and Association Agreement" between Croatia and EU (Croatian: Sporazum o stabilizaciji i pridruzivanju, acronim: SSP). Croatia signed SSP on 29th October 2001. godine in Luxemburg and the SSP agreement became effective on 1st of Feb 2005. In this agreement Croatia has obliged (amongst the other things) that it will adjust its law on purchasing properties within 4 years so that citizens of EU would have the same treatment in purchase process as Croatian citizens. The four years runs out on 1st of February 2009. This adjustment of property purchase process will be valid for all properties apart from properties listed in Addendum VII of the Stabilisation and Association Agreement. The properties listed in Addendum VII are sea, agricultural land and protected nature reserves, for the full and exact list you need to pursue the Addendum VII (in Croatian: Dodatak VII). The SSP where this information is stated can be found on this web page (Croatian only, sorry): www.poslovniforum.hr/eu/ssp.aspOn this page see chapter IV, Article 60., point 2. Also see "Zajednička deklaracija o članku 60." at the bottom of the same web page. Also (again, Croatian only): www.poslovniforum.hr/eu/eu13.aspSection 6.5.1 bullet points 7th, 11th and 12th. |
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Post by josip123 on Jun 19, 2008 22:59:12 GMT 1
There we go, thanks to my rant, we actually get some FACTS, written proof.
Thank you
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Post by Aleksandra on Jun 19, 2008 23:21:29 GMT 1
In fact, if Carol has not written what she heard on not needing permission, I would not have searched so you can thank to Carol for the information.
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Post by franko on Jun 20, 2008 9:12:38 GMT 1
Josip
It is up to you what you take from this board. Carol and a number of other people point you in the right direction, share their experiences etc. If you want further information etc you can contact them direct or follow up on their points independently. Yeah it may be a bit of advertising but I think overall Carol etc have helped alot of people on the way.
Do you honestly expect to receive bespoke advice for free? What makes you a charity?
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Post by mirabelle on Jun 20, 2008 10:16:16 GMT 1
Carol, I am not shooting the bearer of bad news or was it good news (mozda). Just baffled - as this SSP was signed in 2001 at the time when expectations were that HR would be in the EU by 2009 but this has not happened, is HR still obliged to harmonise their property law by 2009? Or will they fulfill their obligation by deadline?  Who knows! |
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Post by Carol on Jun 20, 2008 10:25:32 GMT 1
I think it is good news! Why wouldn't it be unless you somehow make money out of the current system (and you are neither a bent developer nor a lawyer so I do not think you do!)?
I take you point but unless the agreement has been repealed then I can't see how Croatia can avoid it. Also the lawyer who told me of it earlier this month is exceptionally precise and she works with the MOJ a lot. She called them right in front of me. She knew the number from memory, she did not introduce herself because the person who answered the phone knew her voice and they gave her a full case history from their archives for one of my clients without hesitation. I trust her knowledge. Based on this i would say that the balance of probabilities lies in it being true. However time will tell.
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Post by polako on Jun 20, 2008 10:51:50 GMT 1
It is good news if the MOJ permission requirement is removed as it means that you can register your property straight away and avoid all the problems that we have been reading about: see BOBs thread switching to company. Article 60 of the stabilisation agreement regarding the purchase of property by EU nationals is implemented already by CRO as that is the reason why foreigners can buy in Cro under the principle of reciprocity. In 2006, the EU said this about Cro in relation to property in a press release: "With regard to the free movement of capital, the EU noted that Croatia is not complying with its obligation under Article 60 of the SAA to authorise the acquisition of real estate in Croatia by nationals of Member States of the EU. The EU called on Croatia to properly implement these provisions, on a non-discriminatory basis, and to remove the backlog of pending requests from EU citizens by speeding up procedures for all. Croatia stressed its rigorous, non-discriminatory application of relevant laws and procedures in line with the obligations in Article 60 of the SAA." The procedures were speeded up for those who were not caught up in backlog. Edit: since putting up my post, I managed to get the full text of Stabilisation and Association Agreement in English, which took ages to find. Alexandra and Carol are right-Croatia has 4 years from the time that the agreement came into force in 2005 to change the laws to make buying property the same as for Croatian nationals. So the MOJ permission requirement has to change. Here is the link to the FCO website- click on the Command paper stabilisation agreement which has the full text of the agreement in English and look at Article 60. www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/pdf3/fco_pdf_cm5544_stabilisecroatiaAt the end of the day, we are not all experts about Croatia, because we are all learning about Cro . Some have more experience than others and have been very helpful on the board . I think that it is great that this forum exists to share ideas, experiences. Everyone has something valid to bring, and when it's not valid it makes you check the information   . Josip and Carol have given v. good advice and Mirabelle has been a real gem on this board  . Everyone should check what is said, and if it's wrong say so, and if it's right- yipeeee. It's a great board, look at how the information has been pooled re residency and how many people have learnt about what is going on. Keep it up . |
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Post by Carol on Jul 22, 2008 22:56:22 GMT 1
Apparently yesterday the TV news had a piece about a new law which allow foreigners to buy with MOJ permission. (Thanks to V for this info).
So, if it has been passed that would mean it is in Narodna Nav... (whatever its too late at night to look up the spelling!). Does anyone happen to know more?
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Post by Madgolfer on Jul 23, 2008 9:29:03 GMT 1
Maybee its different away from the coast, but in Zagreb MOJ applications are being completed and returned in around 3-4 months.......... IF EVERYTHING IS SUBMITTED CORRECTLEY ! Regarding FEB 2009 date, this could be to do with the SAA agreement which comes into force. Below is an interesting snipet from yesterdays newspaper acredited to Gordon Jadrancoviæ....... "Novosti ZAGREB - Državljani Europske Unije za pola godine moæi æe nesmetano kupovati nekretnine u Hrvatskoj bez ikakvih ogranièenja, èime æe se izjednaèiti s hrvatskim graðanima, dok æe ogranièenja ostati samo za ostale strance. Naime, 1. veljaèe iduæe godine, poèet æe se primjenjivati ugovor iz pregovaraèkih stajališta Hrvatske za poglavlje Sloboda kretanja kapitala, kojeg je ministar vanjskih poslova Gordan Jandrokoviæ u svibnju uputio Vesni Pusiæ, predsjednici Nacionalnog odbora za praæenje pregovora s EU. U pregovorima je jedino Malta, kao mala otoèna državica, uspjela izboriti posebna ogranièenja za kupnju nekretnina. Hrvatska, po uzoru na Poljsku kojoj je to uspjelo, traži prijelazno razdoblje od 12 godina od pristupanja EU. Do sada su stranci nekretnine kupovali osnivajuæi tvrtke u Hrvatskoj ili preko znanaca, a od iduæe godine kupnja æe biti još jednostavnija jer æe to moæi i fizièke osobe. Izvor: www.jutarnji.hr Translation anyone |
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Who knows!
. Josip and Carol have given v. good advice and Mirabelle has been a real gem on this board 
. 