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Post by hravathouse on Jul 12, 2009 23:32:31 GMT 1
Hello. I am new to this board. My wife and I are considering building a modest house on Korcula (in Racisce). My wife Maria is of Croatian decent, and is eligible for dual citizenship (we are both US citizens now), so I expect we won't have the same issues with land ownership as are typically discussed here. Her brother has already achieved dual-citizenship, so I expect all the paperwork is available and suitable. We have a piece of family land which we expect we can have (likely with some money, but below market price). We have verified that the title is clean and are waiting for a Katastral map to verify other details. We still have to do the final price negotiation, etc, but that isn't the issue here.
We are trying to do a lot of this by remote control from the US. I have been working informally with a realtor named Tim Jarc, who owns Marko Polo Nekretnine in Blato (on Korcula). He is fluent in english (a big plus for me, although Maria is fluent in Croatian) and seems like a nice guy. However, as the whole project gets more real, I want to try to make sure he is the right person to be working with. Assuming we get the family land, I expect I will hire Tim to manage the building process. Does anybody here know him, or have any calibration on him? I'm looking for honesty and competence as it relates to managing having a house built from scratch. I'm assuming that having an agent on the island (as opposed to Dubrovnik or Split) is a plus. Does everybody agree (assuming he is honest and competent-)?
Thanks in advance,
Frank
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Post by Carol on Jul 13, 2009 8:28:01 GMT 1
About the Croatian citizenship, it may depend on when your brother in law got his. I know someone else in a similar situation who found that the law had changed against her between the time her brother got it and she applied. I'm afraid I cannot remember the details though.. just that she got it in the end but it took a lot longer and was a lot more effort than it had been for her brother.
An agent on the island could be a plus IF he has the right connections. That means he has a lot of friends at local level, including your new neighbours and he has a good relationship with the local planning offices. It is a tough one because if he has these things, then it could help you but then if he decided to rip you off, no one would help. The same goes for a mainland project manager though so there is no safeguard either way.
I'd get a good lawyer to check the papers and the contract though. Not someone recommended by your agent (you don't want to find you later that you have no right of access or that the land is zoned for tourism or agriculture)
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Post by mambo on Jul 13, 2009 11:19:52 GMT 1
Frank,
You will not hear me say that this Tim guy is not reliable, but all I want to tell you is: be very careful with trusting locals to do some work for you.
My experience here is that 99 % of the people is only after your money and don't care at all about your interest.
Korcula may be a bit better, but here in Istria they see foreigners as rich people and it is perfectly legal to extract enormous amounts of money from you for doing absolutely zilch. Once they realize that you are no longer willing to pay or that you want some work actually done you will never hear from them again.
Never ever pay someone up front, chances are that person will not show up for work and you can kiss your money goodbye.
Be extremely careful who you hire and my suggestion would be to try to be here during the period the house is constructed. Once they realize you are not going to be here it is party time for them.
Sounds harsh and rude, but it is the sad reality that many foreigners have discovered here in Croatia.
Again, perhaps this Tim chap is the exception, but better safe than sorry would be my credo. Trust is good, but control is better.
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Post by londoncro on Jul 13, 2009 16:28:24 GMT 1
Frank, You will not hear me say that this Tim guy is not reliable, but all I want to tell you is: be very careful with trusting locals to do some work for you. My experience here is that 99 % of the people is only after your money and don't care at all about your interest. Korcula may be a bit better, but here in Istria they see foreigners as rich people and it is perfectly legal to extract enormous amounts of money from you for doing absolutely zilch. Once they realize that you are no longer willing to pay or that you want some work actually done you will never hear from them again. Never ever pay someone up front, chances are that person will not show up for work and you can kiss your money goodbye. Be extremely careful who you hire and my suggestion would be to try to be here during the period the house is constructed. Once they realize you are not going to be here it is party time for them. Sounds harsh and rude, but it is the sad reality that many foreigners have discovered here in Croatia. Again, perhaps this Tim chap is the exception, but better safe than sorry would be my credo. Trust is good, but control is better. You must have been very unlucky. From my very extensive personal experience, I'll put the figure at nearer 97%. |
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Post by hravathouse on Jul 13, 2009 19:24:48 GMT 1
Thanks for the replies.
On the dual-citizenship, Maria's parents are/were both Croatiatian citizens, born in Croatia, of Croatian heritage, so I think the path is clear. Her brother's experience just meant that all the birth certificates, etc are in hand. Has the process gotten harder or longer, such that she should get moving quickly?
So if I shouldn't trust any local, is there any way to confidently have a house built without standing guard myself? I'm still working, so spending many months there isn't in the cards until I retire. What is a reasonable interval for building a small house (using a building firm, not local craftpersons) once all the permits are in place (i.e. how long would we need to be there)? Does not trusting a local mean nobody Croatian, or just that I should consider larger, more proven management firms on the mainland rather than on Korcula?
Maria does still have a cousin we are in contact with who lives in Racisce and was employed in the building trades. His house is perhaps a hundred meters from the land of interest. I didn't want to impose on him (or even ask him) to manage the project, but perhaps he could help authenticate Tim Jarc, and if both Tim and the builder knew he was keeping an eye out it would keep them honest.
I will need an architect as I understand it, since this is new construction. Should I try to find my own, or is accepting Tim's recommendation reasonable? (I haven't asked him yet). If I want to look on my own, is it important that they be on Korcula? Does anybody have any recommendations? Good english would be a big plus, since I expect I will do much of the negotiating. While I am at it, how about a recommendation for a reputable, english-speaking lawyer (on Korcula if that is important)?
Thanks again,
Frank
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Post by boris on Jul 13, 2009 22:21:23 GMT 1
Of course be very careful, but people on this forum are much exaggerating: most of the people are honest and will give you good service.
Just googled on Tim Jarc: he is a US citizen, most likely he gives good service to his clients.
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Post by boris on Jul 13, 2009 22:22:17 GMT 1
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Post by Ribaric on Jul 13, 2009 22:28:38 GMT 1
Of course be very careful, but people on this forum are much exaggerating: most of the people are honest and will give you good service. Just googled on Tim Jarc: he is a US citizen, most likely he gives good service to his clients. I think you've just argued yourself out of that one Boris. I think you probably already know the answer to this raciscehouse, you are aksing people to judge the risks of you building a house in a foreign land using people you don't know. That sounds a bit risky no matter where you will be doing it. I wouldn't do it. |
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Post by crojoe on Jul 13, 2009 22:34:08 GMT 1
Depending on what you want in a building, they do have kit houses or prefabs companies in Croatia, but I have never bought one. Maybe a search on the internet will present some options; otherwise there is a yearly builder fair in Zagreb which might be of interest. Best bet though is to find an architect who will also take on the job of site manager, a must in Croatia if you’re not planning to be here to keep everyone busy in person. Never ever pay up front for a build, and try if you can to set a set price for the build, so anyone wasting time along the way will pay for it themselves. The actual build of bricks and roof are very quick, it’s all the other stuff that takes time. Always get everything signed and notarised, such as contracts etc. The courts here are as slow as molasses in January, and on such a matter of a build, probably it would just stall.
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Post by crojoe on Jul 13, 2009 22:41:42 GMT 1
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Post by symeon on Jul 14, 2009 10:49:01 GMT 1
I can definitely recommend a firm based in Korcula Town: PROBIK. Contact Davor on 098 428 285. He does speak some English.
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Post by boris on Jul 14, 2009 11:24:26 GMT 1
Of course be very careful, but people on this forum are much exaggerating: most of the people are honest and will give you good service. Just googled on Tim Jarc: he is a US citizen, most likely he gives good service to his clients. I think you've just argued yourself out of that one Boris. I think you probably already know the answer to this raciscehouse, you are aksing people to judge the risks of you building a house in a foreign land using people you don't know. That sounds a bit risky no matter where you will be doing it. I wouldn't do it. |
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Post by Estelle on Jul 14, 2009 11:26:30 GMT 1
I can definitely recommend that you take great care!
Impose on the relatives and reward them for their time if the are willing to give it.
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Post by boris on Jul 14, 2009 11:27:38 GMT 1
I think you've just argued yourself out of that one Boris. I think you probably already know the answer to this raciscehouse, you are aksing people to judge the risks of you building a house in a foreign land using people you don't know. That sounds a bit risky no matter where you will be doing it. I wouldn't do it. Ribaric, you do not know what are you talking about! How many people you know. who have been defrauded in Croatia in property dealings? And fraud happens on a big scale in Spain, Florida etc |
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Post by mambo on Jul 14, 2009 13:00:05 GMT 1
Boris,
You make the same mistake that many other people make.
Of course it happens also in other countries and we all know that, but who said those countries had less problems ?
We are talking about Croatia and not about Spain, Italy, Holland or Germany. Raciscehouse wants to build here on Korcula, not in Benidorm or Sotomarina. If he would want to build there I would have probably said the same.
And yes I know a h.e.l.l. of a lot of people who lost thousands and thousands of euro's because they were building houses while they were not here.
- Building companies ordering too much material for the house with just one intend.........to take that material home and not having to pay for it.
- Overcharging for permissions, for work they claim they had done, but never did.
- Using wrong kind of cement (cheaper version, with too much water which gives problem during the winter)
- Using cheap materials, but calculating with expensive materials.
- Claiming work for the foundation (excavation, thicker foundations etc) while never performing them.
- Overcharging on the total price
And the list can go on and on and on.
Trust me, I think I have heard (and seen) almost every trick in the book.
A German friend also built a house near Baderna and he flew to Rijeka every friday afternoon and flew back to Germany on Monday morning.
He would pay all the materials himself (made an agreement with the supplier after first checking all the prices and agreeing on paper).
At the end of the week he would check the work which was done that week and only when he was satisfied he paid the workers.
Once the house was finished he paid the contractor the remaining part of the money.
It took him over a year to build the house, but he did get the quality he wanted, he did not pay twice as much for the same house and he is content.
If you have money to spare and don't care what it will cost you then by all means hire the first contractor you can find and wait what gets delivered.
Raciscehouse perhaps could use one option which is a bit more safe. If he is to get a mortgage here then you can ask the bank to send experts to the building site. These experts will check all the bills, check all the work and only when they are satisfied you will get that part of the mortgage.
It is basically some 'third party' expertise, but hey, if it works it works.
Using an island person as your trusted party to check on his friend, the building constructor from the same island, is like asking your left hand to check your right hand..........won't work.
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