skyblue
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Post by skyblue on Jun 15, 2011 14:10:08 GMT 1
You're not even reading my post correctly. I personally have not been spat on, nor have ever been fired from any job. This post is about the state of affairs for gays in Croatia. I am using the collective 'we' when referring to gays, got it?? It is a fact that in many Eastern European countries, gays (whether obvious or not) are often fired from their jobs. They are almost never open about their sexuality, and subsequently they would very seldom come on to members of the same sex in the workplace (as you ignorantly suggested previously), for fear of being sacked. They are fired as the culture in Eastern Europe is to have an intimate knowledge of each worker's private life, hence a worker's sexuality can often be revealed if the gay worker is brave enough. You were asking me these questions to yet again prove to yourself that a gay person provokes injustices towards themselves via their behaviour, as you've been trying to do throughout this entire post  Ok, what’s the next topic of discussion about Croatia? This Aussie (or is the person a Croatian) who knows all or has lived and worked in Croatia knows all about Gay rights and their plight in this country and Eastern Europe out matches me. So, since I know nothing, am not gay I'll just chit chat and shoot the breeze about other topics on matters I know about, such as living in Croatia (which I do and have for several years). By the way, let me know if you plan to visit Croatia and I'll have some sticks and stones available for people to toss at you upon arrival. Otherwise, chill out, have a fosters, chuck a lump of meat on the barbeque (unless your a vegetarian), watch some Aussie football and be gay (happy). For the record, I'm a dual AUS/CRO citizen, and finally I agree with you. You really should stick to topics you know about.... Anyway, been nice playin' wif ya Mr Humphries. Catch ya later at a Zagreb sauna, innit??  See - anyone can come up with a stereotype if they try ;D |
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Post by 3lions on Jun 15, 2011 14:11:30 GMT 1
Actually I do know a gay guy from Split, he works in a coffee shop in London, never goes back.
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Post by Kaskader on Jun 15, 2011 14:49:01 GMT 1
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Post by capio on Jun 15, 2011 15:03:45 GMT 1
The gay parade in Zagreb was the highlight of my year... s.eads versus Queens. Total chaos. There does come a point when the need to scream I'm a gay from the top of your voice becomes old. If I was a homosexual in Croatia, I'd be as discreet as possible around older people, younger people tend to be more open-minded.
I think it's wrong to expect older people to keep changing their views on the world because of whatever the latest youths think. We'll be old one day and our views will be outdated.
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Post by 3lions on Jun 15, 2011 15:25:40 GMT 1
funny how ignorant old people are!
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skyblue
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Post by skyblue on Jun 15, 2011 15:41:37 GMT 1
funny how ignorant old people are! My thoughts exactly - thanks 3lions !! ;D Wonder how old Mr Capio is....  |
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Post by crojoe on Jun 15, 2011 20:31:07 GMT 1
Don't we just love it when a new pip squeek comes onto the board tooting their own horn, trying to set us all straight (or gay).
I'd be interested if skyblue has ever set foot in Croatia (other then as a tourist)? I have set foot in Australia (grew up there).
Far enough, I am not gay (so what), but I have gay friends, been around gays for years, both in Aussie, UK and in other countries. So while I might not sleep with another man (since I guess I can sleep with a woman), I'm pretty versed on the topic of the life style gay folks take.
3lions, since you asked, I see no reason for gays to parade en-mass down the main street of a city other then to express their life style to one and all (to hit the news). I doubt it was just a stroll on a saturday afternoon for their health? It might have been called a parade, but it was really a protest, a march which took planning, permits and from what we can see police protection. I know they had banners and picket signs.
They now plan one in Zagreb this Saturday. Lets see how Zagreb responds?
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Post by Kaskader on Jun 15, 2011 22:24:41 GMT 1
Crojoe
Whilst you might not see the reason for some other group of people to parade/protest or whatever, they do have the right to do so for whatever reason they see valid/fit as long as they do not call on whatever sort of infringements of rights of some other group or individuals.
The least a democracy or a consciencious being can do for a society is to give that right of expression to other individuals or groups.
Gays parading on the streets for whatever reason they see fit, for me, is the smallest problem in the world. I detest politicians and bankers parading on all sorts of media while at the same time committing the biggest wealth transfer from middle classes to supper rich in the history of the world. I detest corporations polluting the planet, and I certainly detest more a person spitting on the street or littering than gay people parading. I also detest any discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation, religion, race, nationality, age..
I am just unsure how parading is effective. In my opinion it is not. Education, education is the key, also lobbying.
Raising awareness by inviting confrontations, maybe even if the blood is spilled...etc...not sure it is needed, as the discrimination of gays in Croatia is not life threatening or otherwise seriously bad, as it was the case with racial issues in US few decades ago.
So, not sure if I see the parade effective, but if gay group does see it, they should have the right to do it without fearing for life or stone being thrown at them.
Basically, in Croatia discriminated is (often, but not acutely) anyone who is not Croatian and Catholic. I am Croatian but at one stage of life I declared myself as protestant, and I did feel discrimination while dealing with some government departmets. I am an agnostic now (with Theology degree), and as you know, agnostics/atheists are regularly being satanized by priests, and there is plenty of good sheeps ready to turn into wolfs and discriminate etc against satanic influences to protect holly Croatian nation.
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Post by crojoe on Jun 16, 2011 0:15:05 GMT 1
Kaskader
I can agree with you, that most of your thoughts are good points, and yes education is the best answer, as long as it's education that is sound and factual.
I also agree people should be able to protest if injustice is a factor. I also agree people should be able to hold a parade, but what I don't agree with is mixing the two.
If time has been taken to educate people, using most normal methods of media, education and communication and no one listens, then guess it's time to protest.
Also, we have to put the coverage of the Split event into context. Yes there was about 200 gay marchers / parades, and there was an estimated 10,000 anti-gay protesters, but only a handful of people that tossed stones & drinks. When mobs get into frenzy, well, normal people can do amazing crazy things.
I think the gay community should be proud of what they have now achieved via the media coverage from a few sticks and stones. If those 10,000 people hadn’t shown up, their little 200 person parade would not have made the evening news. Now it's in our face.
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skyblue
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Post by skyblue on Jun 16, 2011 3:20:14 GMT 1
Don't we just love it when a new pip squeek comes onto the board tooting their own horn, trying to set us all straight (or gay). I'd be interested if skyblue has ever set foot in Croatia (other then as a tourist)? I have set foot in Australia (grew up there). Far enough, I am not gay (so what), but I have gay friends, been around gays for years, both in Aussie, UK and in other countries. So while I might not sleep with another man (since I guess I can sleep with a woman), I'm pretty versed on the topic of the life style gay folks take. 3lions, since you asked, I see no reason for gays to parade en-mass down the main street of a city other then to express their life style to one and all (to hit the news). I doubt it was just a stroll on a saturday afternoon for their health? It might have been called a parade, but it was really a protest, a march which took planning, permits and from what we can see police protection. I know they had banners and picket signs. They now plan one in Zagreb this Saturday. Lets see how Zagreb responds? Certainly not trying to set you all straight, and certainly not gay (wouldn't recommend that lifestyle to anyone if they can help it). Anyway, get over it....what's with the insults? I've managed to get over it and not hold any grudges, why can't you? What are you - Croatian or something??  Look on the bright side, we've managed to turn an otherwise moribund post into a lively, page-turning debate. Admit it - you've enjoyed every minute of it, just as I have...  In answer to your question - I was born in SR Croatia, left for Italy in 1990 with my parents for 2 years, then moved to the great land of Oz. As an adult, I've lived and worked in The Netherlands and the UK. I have many relatives remaining in Croatia, including cousins who left Sydney to move back there. One even owns a real estate agency there, so I do have quite an extensive knowledge of my country and would be able to comment on just about any topic on this forum (in case you wish to question my authority on a subject in future). Each to their own - you have your opinion, I have mine. No hard feelings |
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Post by crojoe on Jun 16, 2011 9:05:08 GMT 1
Don't we just love it when a new pip squeek comes onto the board tooting their own horn, trying to set us all straight (or gay). I'd be interested if skyblue has ever set foot in Croatia (other then as a tourist)? I have set foot in Australia (grew up there). Far enough, I am not gay (so what), but I have gay friends, been around gays for years, both in Aussie, UK and in other countries. So while I might not sleep with another man (since I guess I can sleep with a woman), I'm pretty versed on the topic of the life style gay folks take. 3lions, since you asked, I see no reason for gays to parade en-mass down the main street of a city other then to express their life style to one and all (to hit the news). I doubt it was just a stroll on a saturday afternoon for their health? It might have been called a parade, but it was really a protest, a march which took planning, permits and from what we can see police protection. I know they had banners and picket signs. They now plan one in Zagreb this Saturday. Lets see how Zagreb responds? Certainly not trying to set you all straight, and certainly not gay (wouldn't recommend that lifestyle to anyone if they can help it). Anyway, get over it....what's with the insults? I've managed to get over it and not hold any grudges, why can't you? What are you - Croatian or something?? Look on the bright side, we've managed to turn an otherwise moribund post into a lively, page-turning debate. Admit it - you've enjoyed every minute of it, just as I have... In answer to your question - I was born in SR Croatia, left for Italy in 1990 with my parents for 2 years, then moved to the great land of Oz. As an adult, I've lived and worked in The Netherlands and the UK. I have many relatives remaining in Croatia, including cousins who left Sydney to move back there. One even owns a real estate agency there, so I do have quite an extensive knowledge of my country and would be able to comment on just about any topic on this forum (in case you wish to question my authority on a subject in future). Each to their own - you have your opinion, I have mine. No hard feelings Insult by asking if ever been to Croatia? Boy (or is that girl), talk about being touchy. By the time I finish discussing this issue I'll be anti-gay for sure. |
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skyblue
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Post by skyblue on Jun 16, 2011 9:39:06 GMT 1
Certainly not trying to set you all straight, and certainly not gay (wouldn't recommend that lifestyle to anyone if they can help it). Anyway, get over it....what's with the insults? I've managed to get over it and not hold any grudges, why can't you? What are you - Croatian or something?? Look on the bright side, we've managed to turn an otherwise moribund post into a lively, page-turning debate. Admit it - you've enjoyed every minute of it, just as I have... In answer to your question - I was born in SR Croatia, left for Italy in 1990 with my parents for 2 years, then moved to the great land of Oz. As an adult, I've lived and worked in The Netherlands and the UK. I have many relatives remaining in Croatia, including cousins who left Sydney to move back there. One even owns a real estate agency there, so I do have quite an extensive knowledge of my country and would be able to comment on just about any topic on this forum (in case you wish to question my authority on a subject in future). Each to their own - you have your opinion, I have mine. No hard feelings Insult by asking if ever been to Croatia? Boy (or is that girl), talk about being touchy. By the time I finish discussing this issue I'll be anti-gay for sure. I wasn't referring to that. I was more referring to your constant stereotypes throughout this post, as you just did with the post above. We don't all talk like that (or is that girl) - but you assume we do. I don't believe you have any gay friends at all, it's just a plain lie. But forget it - I'm done trying to be civil, done trying to translate everything for you. It's as if English isn't even your first language. |
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Post by crojoe on Jun 16, 2011 10:30:30 GMT 1
Insult by asking if ever been to Croatia? Boy (or is that girl), talk about being touchy. By the time I finish discussing this issue I'll be anti-gay for sure. I wasn't referring to that. I was more referring to your constant stereotypes throughout this post, as you just did with the post above. We don't all talk like that (or is that girl) - but you assume we do. I don't believe you have any gay friends at all, it's just a plain lie. But forget it - I'm done trying to be civil, done trying to translate everything for you. It's as if English isn't even your first language. Ok, just noticed that you’re male, so apologies about the girl comment. In reading all your comments you never mentioned gender, but now I know from observing the short info to your post name. Anyway, very tired of this endless nonsense since honestly I don't really care. It has no bearing on my life, my business or family. If Croatian gays get more rights, good for them, if they get pelted by more sticks and stones they can deal with it, if they want a parade they can have it. |
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Post by 3lions on Jun 16, 2011 17:57:13 GMT 1
Don't we just love it when a new pip squeek comes onto the board tooting their own horn, trying to set us all straight (or gay). 3lions, since you asked, I see no reason for gays to parade en-mass down the main street of a city other then to express their life style to one and all (to hit the news). I doubt it was just a stroll on a saturday afternoon for their health? It might have been called a parade, but it was really a protest, a march which took planning, permits and from what we can see police protection. I know they had banners and picket signs. It's a democratic right to hold a peaceful protest and that is why the police were there to stop the thugs attacking them (European Convention on Human Rights, especially Articles 9 to 11; and the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights). So even if you don't see any reason for it or can't be bothered about it, then it really isn't important. |
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Post by crojoe on Jun 16, 2011 19:15:55 GMT 1
Don't we just love it when a new pip squeek comes onto the board tooting their own horn, trying to set us all straight (or gay). 3lions, since you asked, I see no reason for gays to parade en-mass down the main street of a city other then to express their life style to one and all (to hit the news). I doubt it was just a stroll on a saturday afternoon for their health? It might have been called a parade, but it was really a protest, a march which took planning, permits and from what we can see police protection. I know they had banners and picket signs. It's a democratic right to hold a peaceful protest and that is why the police were there to stop the thugs attacking them (European Convention on Human Rights, especially Articles 9 to 11; and the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights). So even if you don't see any reason for it or can't be bothered about it, then it really isn't important. TX 3lions! Great weather now in Zagreb, so looking forward to a happy weekend. Will avoid the centre on Saturday as seems another cultural exchange "parade" planned. |
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