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Post by mh on Sept 23, 2012 8:36:18 GMT 1
I feel this topic require more details....
1. Tax on agricultural land is not acceptable as it will hurt small landowners on marginal land, force them to sell and transfer the assetts into foreign hands who will use it to speculate. There is nothing good in it.... 2. We need at least $1b to break even and additional $3b every year to get on feet. Croatian worker is taxed much higher then any old EU country because there is no tax free threshold and high rates kick off on very low income. Croatian battlers know this very well. This is the reason for widespread of grey market and cash economy. 3. Income from various investments is not really taxed at all. Divident tax is OK, but not the tax that was a result of property investment, for example. A person selling inherited property does not pay any tax. Pretty much the same for everybody else, while prices increased from 2000 to 2008 when majority of investors flocked into the market. This income should be taxed same as income tax. 4. Foreign non-residents used companies to purchase the property, but without any intention to conduct commericial activities. They exploited a loophole and generous provisions. I think they should be forced to shut them down and transfer the assetts if they cant break even or demonstrate commercial activity.
These are all facts. No intention to offend anybody, but this is a point of view that grows strongly on the political landscape and in the community.
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Post by upthevilla on Sept 23, 2012 9:06:23 GMT 1
These are all facts. No intention to offend anybody, but this is a point of view that grows strongly on the political landscape and in the community. . They ae not facts, it is your point of view. You cant say that a point of view is a fact. It is either a point of view or a fact
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Post by Madgolfer on Sept 23, 2012 10:23:43 GMT 1
My views below in red.
1. Tax on agricultural land is not acceptable as it will hurt small landowners on marginal land, force them to sell and transfer the assetts into foreign hands who will use it to speculate. There is nothing good in it.... 1) You seem to assume that there are thousands of foreigners queuing up to buy small plots of land, that is simply not the case. Not all foreigners that do buy land are speculators, many wish to work the land they live on. 2) If Croatians do not pay the tax on any unused agricultural land they own, then the government will eventually take it off them and sell it at a very low price at auction. Blame your government not the foreigners. 3) I do not disagree with you on the fundimental point, that it is unfair taxation. Can I ask if you have voiced your concerns with your government? I have, both in written and verbal form and continue to do so at every opportunity I get. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. We need at least $1b to break even and additional $3b every year to get on feet. Croatian worker is taxed much higher then any old EU country because there is no tax free threshold and high rates kick off on very low income. Croatian battlers know this very well. This is the reason for widespread of grey market and cash economy. In my view the "grey" market is almost entirely down to a lack of trust between the people and their leaders. This has been created over decades of corrupt government and its officials not trusting the people to pay what they should. In turn the people do not trust their government to tax them fairly and spend the money wisely.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Income from various investments is not really taxed at all. Divident tax is OK, but not the tax that was a result of property investment, for example.A person selling inherited property does not pay any tax. Pretty much the same for everybody else, while prices increased from 2000 to 2008 when majority of investors flocked into the market. This income should be taxed same as income tax. Are you referring to the free market economy here? That mystical and magical place where people take their hard earned money and perhaps risk it in property investment. Some investors do so with the primary hope of making a profit and are taxed accordingly, others however just for the benefit of owning their own property for their own benefit. If I am understanding your view correctly then both should be taxed the same? Or am I missing your point? And remember that this will affect Croatians with second homes much, much more than foreign property owners
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Foreign non-residents used companies to purchase the property, but without any intention to conduct commericial activities. They exploited a loophole and generous provisions. I think they should be forced to shut them down and transfer the assetts if they cant break even or demonstrate commercial activity.
1) Foreign investors purchase property via the company route because that is how the Croatian government wish us to do it. Do you think that foreign buyers want the grief and costs invloved in setting up and running a company? Of course not. 2) If the Croatian government allowed foreigners to own agricultural land, orchards, vineyards or any other "agricultural" land in their own name then almost all would choose to do so. I should point out here that you as a Croatian (soon to be EU citizen) are perfectly entitled to go to the UK for example and buy a farm in your own name and without any restriction. However I and many others cannot do the same here in Croatia without first setting up a company. How fair is that? 3) Forced closure of dormant companies is being discussed by the government and is likely to be introduced very soon I am sure. Until the government states what amount of monthly or annual turnover legally constitutes an active company there is very little us foreigners can do about it. Obviously this will also apply to the thousands of dormant companies owned by Croatians. Or perhaps these should excluded and the law applied only to foreign owned companies? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are all facts. No they are your views.
No intention to offend anybody, None taken on my part, its nice to have a lively and topical discussion for a change.
but this is a point of view that grows strongly on the political landscape and in the community. Unfortunately I have to agree with you and say that some of the recent comments I have heard from government ministers and others (both officially and privately) does seem to suggest a rather "unwelcoming" attitude is developing towards certain foreigners.
Personally I think these sort of comments are the views of scared and worried individuals that cannot see the true future for their country and who are more concerned to protect their own positions and power. These are very trying and difficult times for everyone, everywhere, not just for those of is here in Croatia and unfortunately during times of stress radical views and nationalistic tendencies seem to become more relevant for some.
Keith Pierce.(aka Socially aware capitalist, property investor and speculator)
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Post by justapixel on Sept 23, 2012 10:50:42 GMT 1
I feel this topic require more details.... 1. Tax on agricultural land is not acceptable as it will hurt small landowners on marginal land, force them to sell and transfer the assetts into foreign hands who will use it to speculate. There is nothing good in it.... AFAIK, the only tax being introduced is tax on unused agricultural land. The purpose of that tax is make people either use their land, or sell it to someone willing to use it. Current situation is the other way around - people are paid subsidies not for the amount of food produced, but for land assigned for growing that food, even if nothing actually gets grown there. 2. We need at least $1b to break even and additional $3b every year to get on feet. Croatian worker is taxed much higher then any old EU country because there is no tax free threshold and high rates kick off on very low income. Croatian battlers know this very well. This is the reason for widespread of grey market and cash economy. If you are talking about budget deficit, we're around $3 billion behind, but the right way to fix it would be reducing government expenses or increasing growth, not introducing more taxes into very sick and overburdened economy. 3. Income from various investments is not really taxed at all. Divident tax is OK, but not the tax that was a result of property investment, for example. A person selling inherited property does not pay any tax. Pretty much the same for everybody else, while prices increased from 2000 to 2008 when majority of investors flocked into the market. This income should be taxed same as income tax. Actually it is. All companies working in Croatia pay 25% income (profit) tax, which I consider pretty reasonable. 4. Foreign non-residents used companies to purchase the property, but without any intention to conduct commericial activities. They exploited a loophole and generous provisions. I think they should be forced to shut them down and transfer the assetts if they cant break even or demonstrate commercial activity. Why would someone buying a holiday house for himself be forced to conduct commercial activities? There's something deeply wrong in your logic. Huge majority of unused homes is owned by Croatians, not by foreigners. Would you force them all to sell? BTW, that's one of the main reasons why property tax in Croatia is due to be introduced the year after sun turns supernova. And what exact loophole and "generous provisions" is a foreigner exploiting in Croatia? They pay same taxes as everyone else. Basically all the money invested by a foreigner into a Croatian real estate can be considered foreign investment. Plus taxes. The whole process helps local economy substantially, unlike your idea of taxing it into oblivion. .
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Post by crojoe on Sept 23, 2012 12:20:03 GMT 1
I feel this topic require more details.... 1. Tax on agricultural land is not acceptable as it will hurt small landowners on marginal land, force them to sell and transfer the assetts into foreign hands who will use it to speculate. There is nothing good in it.... 2. We need at least $1b to break even and additional $3b every year to get on feet. Croatian worker is taxed much higher then any old EU country because there is no tax free threshold and high rates kick off on very low income. Croatian battlers know this very well. This is the reason for widespread of grey market and cash economy. 3. Income from various investments is not really taxed at all. Divident tax is OK, but not the tax that was a result of property investment, for example. A person selling inherited property does not pay any tax. Pretty much the same for everybody else, while prices increased from 2000 to 2008 when majority of investors flocked into the market. This income should be taxed same as income tax. 4. Foreign non-residents used companies to purchase the property, but without any intention to conduct commericial activities. They exploited a loophole and generous provisions. I think they should be forced to shut them down and transfer the assetts if they cant break even or demonstrate commercial activity. These are all facts. No intention to offend anybody, but this is a point of view that grows strongly on the political landscape and in the community. True, agricultural land shouldn't get a huge tax, but I understand under the EU it can get subsidies, which one Croat former politician is banking on (since in the last government he went out and bought a load of government owned "agricultural land"). There are not to many "foreigners" outright buying up agricultural land as it is not possible. It is not allowed. About purchasing property via the company route. Just to set the story straight (which I know the Croat media don't expound on at all), but as a foreigner you just could not purchase a property without setting up a company. This is not scamming the system or a loophole, this was the law (two very different things and it is FACT). This was legislation setup by the Croat law makers! Most "civilized" countries (which Croatia so desperately tries to promote itself as) don't require foreigners to setup a company to buy a home, but Croatia did. This in a way had a knock on effect. First, since you purchased as a company you got tax breaks, you could also write costs off as a company expense (understand, all Croat companies do the very same thing). Only in recent times have those laws been changes so that EU citizens can now own a property right out like any Croat. Not only did EU law require this change, but the Croat government also saw they had created an environment where people and companies did not want to invest in Croatia, which also help led to financial collapse in the country. Maybe you should look more deeply into the laws of the land and legislation before you can really criticize "foreigners" for Croatia's current troubles (financial or otherwise). The last 10 years has been all experimental, with the Croat governments just passing laws every 3 months without much followup or proper studies to look at the consequences and so forth. It's a bit deeper then foreign intervention. I know first hand many laws that where deemed as crazy, compulsive and way out there, not to mention top officials who where so out of touch (one was even a PM recently), and had to have the "foreigners" open their eyes to the facts they where leading the country into ruin. So, lets not get to excited that it's all the evil "foreign" devils running a muck in Croatia, stealing the country or making life tough for Croats. I think your own politicians are doing a fine enough job of their own that little outside help is required at this time. Granted, EU law won't make all things right or make for a better country unless the people are willing to work and fight for their rights.
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Post by crojoe on Sept 23, 2012 13:18:30 GMT 1
CJ. Certainly 8 years ago UK citizens could buy an apartment or small house privately, without the need to set up a d.o.o. However permission had to be sought from the authorities, which agents would say was certain to be granted. However the process could take up to 6 months for permission to be granted, and in the meantime you would have signed a pre sales contract and handed over cash. Majority of buyers were advised by the agents - who wanted a quick and easy sale, ( plus perks from company setups )to go down the company route, this also allowed them to holiday rent their properties ( although that was, and is another minefield) I suspect though that this is about when most people purchased properties using a company, especially Americans and so forth. I wonder about Hungarians, as seems many of them bought, but from many stories, many where bought off plan or without building permits.
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Post by Carol on Sept 23, 2012 14:58:17 GMT 1
january - it wasn't 6 months. There were people who waited three years.
As agents we've been whipped about by the changing regulations as much as anyone. The way that things change in Croatia, its just not possible to describe anything to a buyer except the current situation.
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