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Post by mh on Mar 19, 2013 22:48:44 GMT 1
Well, if you are not living in Croatia you should know Croats are sick of foreign investors and this is the right time to get rid of them. Just as you get rid of rats.
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Post by crojoe on Mar 19, 2013 23:43:41 GMT 1
Well, if you are not living in Croatia you should know Croats are sick of foreign investors and this is the right time to get rid of them. Just as you get rid of rats. MH, I think you read my post wrong, I said I was not living in Cyprus. And Croats are not sick of foreign investment, they are sick of corruption (there's a big difference).
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Post by mh on Mar 20, 2013 0:03:41 GMT 1
Well, if you are not living in Croatia you should know Croats are sick of foreign investors and this is the right time to get rid of them. Just as you get rid of rats. MH, I think you read my post wrong, I said I was not living in Cyprus. And Croats are not sick of foreign investment, they are sick of corruption (there's a big difference). The foreign investment is the corruption. Same like in Cypriot case, foreign investment in Croatia is full of dodgy investors, mafia etc., just Western human rubbish, not Russian. Now Croatia has a legal pretext to expel all bloodsuckers.
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Post by swordfish on Mar 20, 2013 8:31:54 GMT 1
It seems that the cypriot government have seen the light and voted against it. There is only one corruption on this site and I don't think I have to name it.
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Post by mh on Mar 20, 2013 10:34:28 GMT 1
I knew the Cypriot government will vote NO. But please remember, the whole idea was not born in Nicosia, but Brussels. Now everybody will wait for another brave EU idea. That is the one to watch with great interest.
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Post by crojoe on Mar 20, 2013 12:03:47 GMT 1
I knew the Cypriot government will vote NO. But please remember, the whole idea was not born in Nicosia, but Brussels. Now everybody will wait for another brave EU idea. That is the one to watch with great interest. Actually MH, it was presented by the Germans in Brussels. It was not a decision made by all 27 EU States. But sadly your a little late to be condemning the EU as Croatia is joining the EU on July 1st 2013 with or without your consent (a majority vote setup by the Croatian government).
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Post by crojoe on Mar 20, 2013 12:09:46 GMT 1
MH, I think you read my post wrong, I said I was not living in Cyprus. And Croats are not sick of foreign investment, they are sick of corruption (there's a big difference). The foreign investment is the corruption. Same like in Cypriot case, foreign investment in Croatia is full of dodgy investors, mafia etc., just Western human rubbish, not Russian. Now Croatia has a legal pretext to expel all bloodsuckers. Can you share with us some actual examples?
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Post by mh on Mar 20, 2013 12:51:05 GMT 1
Examples? Example is a world history of the last 2000 years including current ilegitimate regime in EU that makes absurd decisions, one after another with this current Cyprus mess being the best example. If really Cyprian banks ever again open their tellers and regardless of the account balance of the depositors, the action of all population and all investors is easy predict - there will be no solvent bank in Cyprus. Ecomomy would be in ruins matched only by the Ancient Greek ruins. Other countries with problems too big to tackle might follow the bad example.
I really have no clue what kind of medicine is applicable following this latest debacle. Maybe the only option is for ALL countries in troubles to do the same, that would cause minimal economic and political disruption.
I only hope Croatia will move quickly and sieze the opportunity instead of paying off EU debts.
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Post by Ribaric on Mar 20, 2013 13:04:24 GMT 1
Which opportunities?
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Post by crojoe on Mar 20, 2013 13:34:01 GMT 1
Examples? Example is a world history of the last 2000 years including current ilegitimate regime in EU that makes absurd decisions, one after another with this current Cyprus mess being the best example. If really Cyprian banks ever again open their tellers and regardless of the account balance of the depositors, the action of all population and all investors is easy predict - there will be no solvent bank in Cyprus. Ecomomy would be in ruins matched only by the Ancient Greek ruins. Other countries with problems too big to tackle might follow the bad example. I really have no clue what kind of medicine is applicable following this latest debacle. Maybe the only option is for ALL countries in troubles to do the same, that would cause minimal economic and political disruption. I only hope Croatia will move quickly and sieze the opportunity instead of paying off EU debts. MH, I mean examples of what you wrote: " foreign investment in Croatia is full of dodgy investors, mafia etc., just Western human rubbish". You seem to have some type of vendetta against foreigners (although from all accounts you yourself are a foreigner in the country you currently reside in, having left Croatia for your own personal reasons). It's easy to generalize, but how about some current Croatian facts?
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Post by crojoe on Mar 20, 2013 18:04:42 GMT 1
MH, here's a famous Croatian dude that can't pay his taxes (and he is only one out of many) Financial problems hit Ivanisevic's companies Croatian Times Former Wimbledon champ Goran Ivanisevic is said to be facing a financial meltdown after his property company in Croatia asked for bankruptcy protection over debts of 640,000 GBP, say local media. The tennis star's company Sports Line at his home town in Split has asked officials to negotiate a deal over the debts, which include 123,000 GBP to taxmen, reports the Tportal news website. Ivanisevic originally formed the company in 1998 to build a development of luxury apartments. Another of his property firms - Goran Promocija - is said to have had its bank accounts frozen over further debts of 125,000. The star shot to fame in 2001 when he became the first wild card player to win the men's singles at Wimbledon.
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Post by mh on Mar 21, 2013 6:25:56 GMT 1
You are identifying right opportunities, but first things first, 5% of the value of all non- residential properties should be converted into non voting shares of Croatian shipyards. Call it tax if you like. This should be an equivalent of Plan A Cyprus deal instructed by Germany (the one that failed in Cypriot parliament).
If you think, CroJoe, to extend it to support Goran, I do not mind although that would be a bailout of small private enterprises that are allowed to fail. I like Goran.
Let us see first what Ms. Merkel will come up with next.....
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Post by crojoe on Mar 21, 2013 15:21:11 GMT 1
You are identifying right opportunities, but first things first, 5% of the value of all non- residential properties should be converted into non voting shares of Croatian shipyards. Call it tax if you like. This should be an equivalent of Plan A Cyprus deal instructed by Germany (the one that failed in Cypriot parliament). If you think, CroJoe, to extend it to support Goran, I do not mind although that would be a bailout of small private enterprises that are allowed to fail. I like Goran. Let us see first what Ms. Merkel will come up with next..... I don't have to think MH, I know the situation pretty well in Croatia as I live there most of the time (except for trips abroad). Our good friend Goran is just one dude among many with similar problems in Croatia. A dept of 650,000 Pounds is no small debt, most of it invested in property. If your talking about taxing 5% for all non-residential properties then that means governmental offices, schools, hospitals. I don't know if you have been to Zagreb, but Zagreb Holding d.o.o. owns most of the buildings that are none residential, and that "d.o.o." is owned by the government. They privatized it so they could make more profit. You will see just about every other building, piece of land, public transport all stamped with Zagreb Holding. Problem is the company itself is broke and in major debt. So, like Cyprus, the only way Croatia could bail out the ship yards would be to raise taxes from 25% PDV (one of the highest in Europe) or steal money from private peoples accounts (and that would be political suicide) or find a buyer (also know as an investor). The government does not want to bail out the shipyards MH, and the only people that are currently interested in maybe buying the yard are the Chinese. Look, the truth of the matter is previous (and maybe current) Croatian governments have squandered opportunities, siphoned off money to Swiss bank accounts and made bad decisions and run up big debts. As small in population but huge in touristic opportunities Croatia should be booming, but it's not the fault of investors but the Croatian government, past and present. Tourism makes up 15% of GDP, quite high for the region (10 million tourists), but the government often forgets that tourism alone will not finance the country. besides some large major Croatian players (who have a knack at avoiding paying taxes) it's down to small business to prop the country up. Sadly, the governments strategy towards small business is to kill it off, tax it like crazy and bury it in red tape.
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Post by mh on Mar 22, 2013 9:07:12 GMT 1
I agree with above, but keep in mind that any 5% property tax is cost neutral for all of the government. Take with one hand, give back with another. I also think that every property owned by Croats is a residential property. If not, then help fellow Croat and rent it for HRK 1. In Goran's case and all other bankrupt cases, Croatia is well behind any other country and the fact you do not pay your bills does not mean you run out of money. It means the creditors can't get hold on your assets. I hope this could all play nicely in Croatian interest. One time lucky?
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Post by zvekov on Mar 22, 2013 19:49:29 GMT 1
Tbh.. The whole Cypriot thing is bizarre... But it may be a parallel for croatia if they don't get help... The banks are over leveraged to real estate and the real economy is very small... Lack of critical mass (Small population) means unproductive industries except tourism... Mh.. You need to look at legality of real estate rights and nationalising 5% of foreign investors interests won't save croatia... It may have some success if its done across the board, but we all know what happened since then and there are still cases in the legal system seeking restitution... So a tax on foreigners only will achieve nothing, but spite against croatia which still badly needs foreign investment to prop it... Mh.. Am afraid your idea was hatched after a few glasses of wine... Without thinking of the deeper consequences for the other Croatians...
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