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Post by rogerraccoon on Jan 20, 2014 17:10:39 GMT 1
Never heard of legalisation until last Summer when I went on holiday in August so past any deadline. Turns out in Ciovo where I line most buildings have no building permit. However I have been issued with a certificate for my house from the Cro gov to say I own the property and have also paid stamp duty. The Cro lawyer said it was not her duty to check building permit - typical lazy lying Croat How can the Cro gov issue paperwork and raise stamp duty if the property should not exist. Also as a lawyer that is clearly Estoppel in any case and so I should be ok en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
It is clealry a bizarre sutuation. Why did the Cro authorities not inform me as they informed me about the stamp duty payable? V worried - do Croatian people have any idea of years of hard work destroyed because of them being clueless? |
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Post by crojoe on Jan 20, 2014 19:22:19 GMT 1
Never heard of legalisation until last Summer when I went on holiday in August so past any deadline. Turns out in Ciovo where I line most buildings have no building permit. However I have been issued with a certificate for my house from the Cro gov to say I own the property and have also paid stamp duty. The Cro lawyer said it was not her duty to check building permit - typical lazy lying Croat How can the Cro gov issue paperwork and raise stamp duty if the property should not exist. Also as a lawyer that is clearly Estoppel in any case and so I should be ok en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
It is clealry a bizarre sutuation. Why did the Cro authorities not inform me as they informed me about the stamp duty payable? V worried - do Croatian people have any idea of years of hard work destroyed because of them being clueless? welcome to Croatia legal system. I had my company closed down without a peep from the Croatian Chamber of commerce, the business court or even FINA, all because the local tax office that takes my tax returns tossed them into a corner and left them there for two years. Fina thought the company was dormant, then informed the Business court the company was no longer trading, who then decided to close it free of charge (during the mighty purge of dormant companies). The ironic part was we where still trading after we found out the company was closed. We acted quick and where able to pull out all the money and close the bank account. But if I was you, I would be over here working all these details out yourself with help, otherwise you could easily loose it all due to local incompetence. And forget trying to take the matter (after the fact) through the Croatian court system. You could be looking at a 10 year process. |
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Post by ZAD on Jan 20, 2014 20:14:17 GMT 1
You can still go through the legalization process now. Round 1 was easy and cheap: An 'architect' would come and photograph the property, then draw up a detailed set of plans (cost approx 1000 euros). Now (as far as I've been told)there is a 12-point system, where electrics have to be drawn in, as well as all plumbing drainage etc. This is going to be expensive.
It is the responsibility of any foreign property owner to keep abreast of legal developments in the country they have invested. Legalization was all over the news and internet forums at the time.
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willow
Junior Member
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Post by willow on Jan 21, 2014 10:12:17 GMT 1
rogerraccoon: "typical lazy lying Croat"? If that's your attitude you should go on holiday/buy property somewhere else.
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Post by rogerraccoon on Jan 21, 2014 11:43:36 GMT 1
The story is not so unusual, and like Crojoe I think you should be proactive and get this sorted before it develops into a bigger problem. I also think your generalization of the Croatian people "typical lazy lying Croat" is distasteful, and makes me wonder why you bought here in the first place. To answer your question, I did not now this at the time of buying |
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Post by rogerraccoon on Jan 21, 2014 11:46:48 GMT 1
You can still go through the legalization process now. Round 1 was easy and cheap: An 'architect' would come and photograph the property, then draw up a detailed set of plans (cost approx 1000 euros). Now (as far as I've been told)there is a 12-point system, where electrics have to be drawn in, as well as all plumbing drainage etc. This is going to be expensive. It is the responsibility of any foreign property owner to keep abreast of legal developments in the country they have invested. Legalization was all over the news and internet forums at the time. !Legalization was all over the news and internet forums at the time" An inane comment -well not in the UK it wasnt on any news sites- please note not all of us live in Croatia. And why should I automatically be expected as a duty to spend time on forums. Some of us have jobs, Its the resposnsibility of the Cro lawyer to check paperwork which they didnt and should have done and nbow claim it was not their job. |
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Post by rogerraccoon on Jan 21, 2014 11:48:46 GMT 1
rogerraccoon: "typical lazy lying Croat"? If that's your attitude you should go on holiday/buy property somewhere else. I intend to once I have sold. I have had money stolen several times from of so many different Croats been conned had bank withdrawals taken. Contracts not honoured. The list is almost endless. Sorry if the truth hurts |
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Post by rogerraccoon on Jan 21, 2014 12:40:38 GMT 1
"It is the responsibility of any foreign property owner to keep abreast of legal developments..."
BTW is this a joke? Ridiculous. It may be repsosbility of a property lawyer to keep abreast of developments in their country but certainly not the buyer and partucularly not after he has made the purchase!!
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Post by ZAD on Jan 21, 2014 19:05:42 GMT 1
"It is the responsibility of any foreign property owner to keep abreast of legal developments..." BTW is this a joke? Ridiculous. It may be repsosbility of a property lawyer to keep abreast of developments in their country but certainly not the buyer and partucularly not after he has made the purchase!! Ridiculous? What did you expect? That the lawyer would contact all of their previous clients abroad to inform them of a government decision regarding their property? Would this happen in the UK? Certainly not. You paid the lawyer for a service, which was completed when you were entered in the Land Registry as the lawful owner. What will you complain about next? An orkanska bura has ripped the house off your roof and no one informed you. Keep your eye on the weather forecast (and the ball). |
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Post by zvekov on Jan 21, 2014 22:57:33 GMT 1
Lawyers actions a disgrace to the profession. if the buyer paid legal fees which i suspect they may have done.. it is the lawyers responsibility to highlight this fact... surely!!... otherwise they should not be paid to do this job... or at least they should have recommended the service of a competent person to identify whether or not the property is legal..end of.. no escaping... why will they want to take 1% fee... and not be responsible for reasonable tasks... This is why you csn understand why some foreigners dont use lawyers in these countries... not worth the penny and sadly there is no genuine regulatory system to ensure redress... te lawyer should be struck off or face a fine...simples
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Post by ZAD on Jan 21, 2014 23:14:12 GMT 1
Don't talk rubbish. The Croatian Solicitors' Bar is the regulatory system and they are very strict on misconduct. www.hok-cba.hr/enThis is not the lawyer's fault. An EU/Croatian Government law came into effect whereby all properties had to be legalised. In the good old days we didn't need certain "this or thats", blind eyes were turned to an extra balcony or a third floor, until good old Mother Europe put her jackboot down. I bought a donkey three years ago. When the EU states that I must keep that donkey in a field measuring 1000m2, must I complain to the man that sold me the donkey and demand he pays for the new, bigger field? BTW I don't own a donkey. |
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Post by zvekov on Jan 21, 2014 23:23:38 GMT 1
nah!!
it was an illegal property at time of purchase and that had nothing to do with eu or croatia... illegal is illegal...and you pay a lawyer to watch out for those interests..thats their job... do it or dont take the fees.. the systen of redress is an issue of having on in place and doing what it says on the can... not a body that is strung by a weak legal framework... i do not need to study the details ofthe croatian legal system to buy in croatia... on pays a lawyer (an expect) whose job is to advise and represent the buyers legal interests...
asking an investor to become a lawyer is ridiculous..
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Post by ZAD on Jan 21, 2014 23:34:51 GMT 1
Never heard of legalisation until last Summer when I went on holiday in August so past any deadline. Turns out in Ciovo where I line most buildings have no building permit. However I have been issued with a certificate for my house from the Cro gov to say I own the property and have also paid stamp duty. The Cro lawyer said it was not her duty to check building permit - typical lazy lying Croat How can the Cro gov issue paperwork and raise stamp duty if the property should not exist. Also as a lawyer that is clearly Estoppel in any case and so I should be ok en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel
It is clealry a bizarre sutuation. Why did the Cro authorities not inform me as they informed me about the stamp duty payable? V worried - do Croatian people have any idea of years of hard work destroyed because of them being clueless? The OP doesn't actually specify if his house had a permit or not. Nor does he mention the year in which it was built. He is merely complaining about missing the deadline for legalisation. If his property does have the relevant papers and was constructed to the original architectural plans, then he has nothing to worry about. BTW I don't understand your English. |
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Post by zvekov on Jan 22, 2014 14:18:01 GMT 1
Sorry... Predictive text causing havoc on my replies.... Hence poor the poor English were you referring to me...
But in the opening transcript there is mention of the lawyer stating it was not her duty to check the property was legal... I think she has a responsibility to either check that or refer the buyer to a surveyor or an architect... That she failed to do.!! A buyer cannot be expected to understand the intricacies of a legal or non legal property..anywhere..regardless... I am quite sure her legal fees don't reflect the limited scope of tasks she thinks is her responsibility..
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Post by ZAD on Jan 22, 2014 22:50:16 GMT 1
As the law used to stand, a property couldn't be transferred into the buyer's name (land registry) if the paperwork wasn't in order. The fact that rogerraccoon's house/flat is in his name suggests that all papers were correct at the time.
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