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Post by Marie on Aug 3, 2004 19:35:43 GMT 1
I just cannot believe that Croats deliberately brought down that bridge in Mostar, for no good reason, as claimed by many journalists and newspapers.
There must be some background story to this. Anyone knows antg details?
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Post by someone on Aug 7, 2004 3:23:37 GMT 1
It was a war and people did stupid things, due to ethnic hatred and racism. There are no excuses.
I am both croatian and serb (A rare mix these days) and I will admit that both croatians and serbs did horrible and unspeakable crimes durning the wars in bosnia and krajina. We both have our share of crimes we commited, and are both responsible in our own ways.
I enjoy reading these foroums (and others) and seeing other peoples views. However I am disgusted and even ashamed of my nationality (or nationalities I should say) when i read some of the nationalistic garbage and racism. It is indeed embarssing to see what some serbs write about croatians in other forums and what croatians write about serbs (Horrible racist slurs, and remarks) these remarks that only show how sick some people really are and only reflects badly on us as a people and as a cutture/nastionality. What will others think when they read this??? What kind of a impression will they have of us??? They will think we are horrible racist, backward people who
only understand hate and violence.
I belive it is time to put the past behind us and move on, Croatia and Serbia will always be beside each other and we will always live along side each other.
lets try to resolve our differences and work for a better tommorow , only then can we guarntee peace and stability...
Croatians and Serbs need to stop posting this horrible racist BS, over the internet, we need to show the world that we are normale people who can work together and achieve peace, only then will the world beging to recognize us and respect us.
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Post by Dario on Aug 7, 2004 18:33:37 GMT 1
Re: Mostar Old Bridge:
Mostar was captured by the Serbs at the outset of war in Bosnia (1993). They expelled all Croats and Muslims. A year later Bosnian Croats with Muslim volunteers liberated it and jointly ruled the city (Muslim West Mostar and Croats East Mostar, river Neretva being the divading line. ). Some time later the Muslims tried to capture the whole city, and established a bridgehead on the Croatian side, which was supplied over the Old Bridge at night. As many Croats were dying, and there was no other way to dislodge the Muslim salient Bosnian Croatian General Praljah ordered the destruction of the bridge and the Muslims had to withdraw to their side of the city.
A great pity that the bridge had to be destroyed, but there was no other option.
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Post by Why Not on Aug 7, 2004 19:48:10 GMT 1
Standard Croatian Story...
Muslims will give you a totally different story as will Serbs.
Everyone has their own story, and although there is some truth to each of there stories, the truth is well hiden and very little people know what really happended.
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Post by Guest 1981 on Aug 8, 2004 3:16:38 GMT 1
It's always interesting to read different sides of history instead of what just generally happened. Winners write the history(and it's not just the case with Croats, Serbs, and Bosnians). What would the history be like if Hitler won the WWII? I read american version of Battle of Alamo and then I read the mexican version and it's interesting the way they are portrayed.
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Post by Dario on Aug 8, 2004 10:46:46 GMT 1
Standard Croatian Story... Muslims will give you a totally different story as will Serbs. Everyone has their own story, and although there is some truth to each of there stories, the truth is well hiden and very little people know what really happended. Please tell us Muslim and Serbian version, if there is one. Muslims generally agree with the Croatian account! They see nothing wrong in trying to capture the CRO side of Mostar. |
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Post by Regara on Aug 8, 2004 21:37:55 GMT 1
I completely agree with you "Why Not" (and Guest 1981) You have a good point when u say that everyone has a different story. I have a few friends in the UK who are Muslim and Croat, and it is very true that they both give different explanations about Mostar, the war and other happeings.
I also think the person named "Someone" had a very smart and interesting point about Serbs and Croats. People need to begin to let go of the past and look toward the future instead of constantly bickering about who was wrong and who was right. I am sure that the fighting and arguing between Serbs and Croats will stop and they will become good allies and friends, however it will take a while...
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Post by traveller9861 on Aug 9, 2004 22:14:43 GMT 1
Yes, good point indeed!
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Post by traveller9861 on Aug 9, 2004 22:15:33 GMT 1
Yes, good point indeed!
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Post by Aljosa on Aug 25, 2004 11:26:00 GMT 1
It will never work cause serbs always hold a gruge an never let go, else they would have let Croatia and the rest of the now independant countries seperate without a war.
It must have been real bad for their ego seeing that no-one other than montenegro wanted to stay joined with them.
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Post by Postit on Aug 25, 2004 17:12:38 GMT 1
Well, Aljosa, I can see where you are coming from but I dont really agree that they always hold a grudge. One example is always after ww2 the serbs knew very well what the Ustasa did and could have took revenge and also not agreed to form a union with Croatia. However they did forgive. Most nations would have seeked revenge and demolished the other nation for doing something like that but the sebs didnt. Stupid.. NO....Naive..yes.
Before the war, If the majority of Croatians wanted to be independent than that is alright and they have a right to be independent if that is there wish.
However on the other hand many serbs will say that "If Croatia has the right to be independent from Yugoslavia ( Because people deserve their right of soverignty and self-determination) then why cant Krajina (as it was called) be separte from Croatia if it is the wish of the majority of people. Dont they have the right to self determination and soverinty?
However thats only my opinion, you can agree or disagree if you want.
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Post by Luka on Aug 25, 2004 17:34:22 GMT 1
By the same token, can the Croats or Hungarians ask for independence? Of course not.
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Post by Postit on Aug 25, 2004 18:03:26 GMT 1
Serbs cant ask for independnce from croatia now (since they do not make majority)
Vojovidna is majority serb.
If you are refering to ethnic Hungarian majoritys (in certain districts) in Vojvodina than thats harder to answer....
I suppose it would come down to who land is it historically.
But hey,, This is the balkans, where history is so vast and yet so contradicting and complex. With so many sides to the story its hard to figure out what was historicaly croatian/serb/hungarian/bulgar/Albanian
One thing I'v always liked about the Balkans is how people are so attached to history and how important it is to them and their people. You dont find that in many places around the world.
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Post by Aljosa on Aug 26, 2004 12:40:07 GMT 1
The people in Krajina can't ask for independance, as it belongs to Croatia. Just because the majority of people want it to be part of serbia it does not mean they can have it.
In that case China would own the whole world as the they have one of the largest populations, they could easily move around claiming ownership of land.
The serbs choose to live in Croatia in a Croation region. That does not entitle them to ownership
The difference in Croatia wanting independance is that it was effectively its own independance state and never really wanted to be part of yug just Solovenia, bih etc etc.
I disagree there postit, Most countries I've been to do support their history.
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Post by Postit on Aug 26, 2004 16:40:02 GMT 1
I Know what you mean Aljosa,, they do support their history,,, its just that in the Balkans history plays such a key role especially to the wars we had. (Eg. Whos land is whos historically).
Regading "Krajina" I understand what you are saying (especially regarding China) However some may aguee that the Tito Drawn AVNOJ borders (Croatia, Serbia - Vojvodian,Kosovo, Serbia Proper) were just communists plans and that they were not based on any historical or ethnic lines (Otherwise Croatia should have had its fair share of Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia its)
In other words those borders that the communists drew did not mean anything,,, its just the way they divided Yuga so it would be easier to govern.
Those borders did not gaurantee that if any group of people wanted to succed that that the AVNOJ border would be their correct succeding borders.
The maps would have to be re-drawn since AVNOJ borders are not historic nor ethincal, just somethings the communists thought up.
One other thing regarding the difference between Krajina wanting serpartion and Chinease people wanting seperation in other parts in the world is that Krajina did not want to be independent,, it wanted to stay together with Yugoslavia. Croatia was forcing the people of Krajina to leave Yuga against their wishes.
There is actually a universal UN law which states
"It is an established legal precedent and an accepted principle of international law that a secessionist entity cannot take with it geographically compact regions inhabited by a majority opposed to secession" (Krajina)
But,,, I suppose all that is history know. I wonder if Tito did create the borders corectly, gave the serbs Krajina (or at least autonomy) gave Croats Herzegovina, and didnt butcher Serbia into 4 parts, perhaps we wouldnt have had all these wars???
Who knows...
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