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Post by Airma on Aug 27, 2004 17:09:54 GMT 1
Thats how you reply to all this. Some stupid comment about tito and tudman,,, after all that info?
Does the truth really bug you that much?
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Post by Anja on Aug 27, 2004 20:25:36 GMT 1
It doesn't bug me at all. I live for future, not for the past. I believe only in what I see with my eyes.. IMO: No truth is ever a truth, there is always a dose of subjectivity in any subject.. Therefore, I do not bother... the history has always been written by winners..
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Post by Airma on Aug 27, 2004 21:01:14 GMT 1
IMO: No truth is ever a truth, there is always a dose of subjectivity in any subject.. Well thank you! Then you must understand why I had to disagree with Svugreks "one sided" story.
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Post by svugrek on Aug 28, 2004 3:26:51 GMT 1
I never forced you to agree with my 'one sided' story, anyway. Of course there were some crimes commited by the Croats as well ( Bljesak and Oluja 1995 ). But this discussion is not about it, it is simply about reasons of the war in Croatia. BTW, svugrek has been living all this time in Zagreb since he was born there including the war period too. At that time I was a 14 years old kid who spent numerous nights and days in a local shelter. But here I would love to thank you for not attacking Zagreb ( and Split ) too many times. If you turned Zagreb into city of ghosts like Vukovar, it would've really sucked big time. Thank you!
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Post by svugrek on Aug 28, 2004 4:03:14 GMT 1
Equally melancholy is the situation in Croatia. The authoritarian policy of its president, Dr. Tudjman, has turned most media into propaganda outlets of the ruling separatist coalition. Western observers and diplomats have repeatedly stressed that the terms of public debate are much freer even in Milosevic's Serbia than in Tudjman's "young democracy." Much more serious than the issue of media freedom, however, is the systematic abuse of the human rights of Serbs in Croatia (cf. *Time*, September 30, 1991). This policy was initiated already by the former communist regime in Croatia, as witnessed in July 1989, when scores of Serbs were arrested simply because they attended a commemoration outside an Orthodox church near the city of Knin. this about the Orthodox church by Knin is a total bullnuts, I've never heard of it...if Croats didnt do anything like that ever before, for what reasons they would arrest those people in 1998 ?? Doesnt make any sense, sounds like a total lie.More systematic persecution of Serbs in Croatia came after the electoral victory of the separatists in that republic in the spring of 1990. There are well-documented cases of thousands of Serbs fired from their jobs in a totally arbitrary manner, or forced to sign humiliating "declarations of loyalty" to the new government in Zagreb. They were denied the right to use their Cyrillic script, and - significantly - they were prevented from setting up their own schools, where their children would be shielded from at least some of the excesses of anti-Serb propaganda which now permeaces Croatian textbooks. Even a year ago, all this induced U.S. Ambassador in Belgrade Warren Zimmerman to express his concern about the position of Serbs in Croatia to the authorities in Zagreb. That is not true!!! Serbs started losing their jobs later when the agression started, but there were not the only ones, many Croats lost their jobs too including my father due to economical downfall caused by this agression. - About the Cyrilic thing, yes, we were not forced to learn it in schools anymore, if you find it offending, that is your problem.Events of 1990 were but a prelude to the present state of affairs in Croatia. The Serbs describe it as anti-Serb state terror, which is hardly an exaggeration. Distribution of arms to "reliable Croats" in the villages, members of the ruling Croatian Democratic Alliance (HDZ), turned every nook and cranny of the republic of Croatia with a Serb population into an anti-Serb open season: nocturnal shootings, hate slogans spray-painted on houses, and threatening telephone calls in the middle of the night became the order of the day. Eventually, over one-hundred-thousand Serb people living within the boundaries of the federal republic of Croatia, mainly women, children, and old people, had to abandon their homes and seek refuge in Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Montenegro. Another lie..you are good at it, did you know it ? Although, I kind of agree with the last sentence, but dont you think that you dropped some key facts here ? What about those couple hundred thousands Croatian refugees that Serbs first kicked from their homes in 1991 You know that during the Bljesak and Oluja ( 1995) around a 100.000 Serbian civilians left 'Krajina' by orders from Belgrade..anyhow, they were told by the Croatian government to stay, nobody forced them to leave.It is sad, but unsurprising, that the government in Zagreb has failed the test of true democracy. Dr. Tudjman is a former communist general, faithful to Tito's memory even to this day. His government has been and still is composed of many former communists who went from Titoist orthodoxy to chauvinist obscurantism without stopping anywhere in between. They are hostages of simplistic solutions, unable to appreciate the complexity and subtlety of the political process in a democracy, and unable to escape the clutches of collectivism - in its Marxist or in its nationalist guise. Are you a crack smoker ? At the present time, no government of a Yugoslav republic may claim the distinction of being truly democratic. A sober appraisal of the situation cautions us against facile divisions of Yugoslavia into "pro-Western", democratic, and "neo-communist" authoritarian parts. It is hardly disputable that Serbia's president, Slobodan Milosevic, has strong authoritarian tendencies; but that republic's constitution at least allows the possibility of a fundamental change with his eventual departure from the helm. Croatia, on the other hand, cannot entertain such hope: it is constitutionally defined as the "nation-state of the Croat people", and the "embodiment of its centuries-old striving for statehood." Such a definition is in a way understandable, emerging as it does within the context of a small, underdeveloped, and insecure central-east European nationalism. It fits rather uneasily, however, into the concept of an increasingly united Europe that seeks to liberate itself from this kind of nationalist hangover. blah blah blah, just another twisted fact, i am getting tired, good night.
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Post by Airma on Aug 29, 2004 0:51:21 GMT 1
Well good night to you as well.
I disagree with 95% of what you say (Although I am finallly relived to find a croat admit that crimes were commited in Oluja against serbs)
Although I dont want to pro-long this I will say that it doesnt matter what Zagreb said to serbs (Dont leave you will be safe) 1) What do they know about their military and whos hate is strong enought to kill 2) Even if Cro militia did not kill and serbs, local resentment was enough to scare or even harm or kick the serbs out.
I would say more, but I guess me and you really wont agree much right??
Well,, I respect you for responding in a normal and civilized mannor, I dont want to turn this into a another Serb Vs. Croat forum war.
Good Luck and Good night!
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Post by s vugrek on Aug 29, 2004 2:35:25 GMT 1
well, good morning I am glad you feel relieved, there's really nothing I feel like I should hide about some Croats commiting war crimes ( Oluja ), but what the difference between us is that i can freely admit some facts, while you mask them and twist them until they really start to look like sci-fi, especially about Tudjman, Tito and Marxism. The truh is that Tudjman used to be one of the youngest Tito's generals, but he was also arrested in 1971 for supporting pro-Croatian politics and ideas, and spent I dont know how many years in prison for that. Airma : Although I dont want to pro-long this I will say that it doesnt matter what Zagreb said to serbs (Dont leave you will be safe) 1) What do they know about their military and whos hate is strong enought to kill 2) Even if Cro militia did not kill and serbs, local resentment was enough to scare or even harm or kick the serbs out. 1.) and 2.) These two reasons perfectly explain why did you start agression on Croatia, you were so afraid of us that you simply had to start taking over towns and villages from which 95% of the villages and towns had Croatian majority, in the state of Croatia. Kicking out Croats, Slovaks, Hungarians from their homes, killing, doing awfully horrible crimes on civilians, this all really can justify and explain how endangered and afraid the Serbs were. And yeah, Croatian police may have killed some ARMORED Serbs that the Cro police were attacked by. Nice try, Airma. There was no war crimes documented by Croats during those 4 years of the war, except for the one that supposebly Ante Gotovina had done in Oluja. I feel kinda silly asking you this : lets forget all the occupied territories in Cro, and lets concentrate on Vukovar or Dubrovnik. How do you justify Serbian aggression on these two towns ? Or you are just one of those who think that Croats did it to themselves ? For your information, I was one of those (unlucky) ones who was returning home from summer-vacation with my parents and got stopped at 'check point' by some armored Serbs in Lika region. They scarred the living s**t out of me when they started shouting and swearing at my parents and me, calling us nasty names, ustase etc. But I can truthfully understand them, and I would have felt scared with a machinegun hanging down my neck if I saw an average couple with their teenage kid going home from vacation. Just surreal. good luck to you too
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Post by Airma on Aug 29, 2004 4:30:23 GMT 1
Howdy, Svugrek,, YOU SAID am glad you feel relieved, there's really nothing I feel like I should hide about some Croats commiting war crimes ( Oluja ), but what the difference between us is that i can freely admit some facts, while you mask them and twist them until they really start to look like sci-fi, especially about Tudjman, Tito and Marxism. I SAY No, dont tell me I twist things and mask them etc, etc. Not only is it not true but its also rude. I cant freely admit facts??? Dude if only you knew me!? Based on my opinions Ill have more serbs hating me than croats! Lol,, not really but still.... 1) Regarding that Tito, Tudman, Max etc.. I got that info off a site, however I should have excluded that info, sice I dont no anything about it either... 2) In a war between two sides (Croats and Serbs) there will always be two stories which will differ on many aspects. However something I have learned is that your side (my side that would be) is not always 100% correct and neither is the other. The hard part is drawing the line of who was right and who was wrong on what topics and were is the truth between the two, which is always in the middle. Croats say serbs expelled croats in Krajina and poor inncocent croats did not to desreve it. PERIOD! Serbs say croats expelled serbs in Krajina and poor incoent serbs did nothing to deserve it. PERIOD! Can anyone see this goes nowhere? Each side has evidence however the two sides do not take each others evidence as truth, but lies. I for one dont agree with the average croat side of the story, however that does not mean that I do agree with serb side... No matter what anyone tells me, the truth is somewhere in the middle and you just got to find it. I dont know the whole truth about the war and neither do you. Who does anymore? YOU SAID These two reasons perfectly explain why did you start agression on Croatia, you were so afraid of us that you simply had to start taking over towns and villages from which 95% of the villages and towns had Croatian majority, in the state of Croatia. Kicking out Croats, Slovaks, Hungarians from their homes, killing, doing awfully horrible crimes on civilians, this all really can justify and explain how endangered and afraid the Serbs were I SAID WHAT!? This is not what I was emplying nor is it truth. 1) Serbs had right to be scared. They were slaughtered in WW2 by Ustasa in HUGE numbers, it could easily happen again. 2) It wasnt just fear, it was proof. Serbs were threanted in many parts of Croatia some had stones thrown at their houses/windows/apartements/insults/death threats etc..... and then came reports of killing. You say serbs kicked out croats in majority croat towns??? It was serbs who started being ethnically cleansed and threatned from croatia first. YOU SAID feel kinda silly asking you this : lets forget all the occupied territories in Cro, and lets concentrate on Vukovar or Dubrovnik. How do you justify Serbian aggression on these two towns ? I SAY What am i here? A lawyer? Who am I to justify here? Im only stating my opinion. YOU SAID For your information, I was one of those (unlucky) ones who was returning home from summer-vacation with my parents and got stopped at 'check point' by some armored Serbs in Lika region. They scarred the living s**t out of me when they started shouting and swearing at my parents and me, calling us nasty names, ustase etc I SAY I am sorry for your expierence. I know it must have felt awfull. But you must understand that is only one example of something horrible that happens in war. There were incidents like this happening nation wide against serbs and croats. They each hated each other enough at the time to do this (not that it justifies anything) No point in going any further. I dont like talking about the war, it only brings back bad memories and horror and sorrow. :Can we end this? Lets talk about something serbs and croats have in common..lol,, like love for sports, like waterpolo! i I hear Cro is going for the gold in Rukomet (although I just forgot against who,, sorry) And serbia is going for gold against hungary tommorow for waterpolo ;D ;D Good luck to both teams I suppose! And time for me to go to sleep LAKO NOC!
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Post by svugrek on Aug 29, 2004 7:50:31 GMT 1
good morning again whoooa whooaa, slow down, Airma. You said : 1) Serbs had right to be scared. They were slaughtered in WW2 by Ustasa in HUGE numbers, it could easily happen again. 2) It wasnt just fear, it was proof. Serbs were threanted in many parts of Croatia some had stones thrown at their houses/windows/apartements/insults/death threats etc..... and then came reports of killing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.) What has the WWII do with this now Does it mean that Polish minority in Germany should attack Germans to prevent some possible coming crimes because of traumas from the war Anyhow, a large number of Croats was slaughtered by Serbian Chetniks too, including Bleiburg (1945), so the 'debt' had been paid off a long long long time ago, now we are even. How come Croats didnt attack Serbs or were affraid of them, also because of that very bitter experience from the WWII ? So, what is next excuse ? 2.) I do believe that some Croats did throw rocks at Serbs houses etc etc, after they heard and found out what was going on, especially in more rural areas. But these all were isolated incidents from both sides. We are talking in general here. Reports on killing Where did they come, from where ? Did you watch them on Serbian TV maybe ? Then you must be the only one who still has no idea that Milosevic controlled the entire media in Serbia. hmm ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You said : It was serbs who started being ethnically cleansed and threatned from croatia first. Let me ask you, Airma, if you are familiar with RSK (Republika Srpska Krajina), under what circumstances it was created in Croatia, theRSK lasted around 4 years in the heart of Croatia ( geographically). In my class I had a few kids expelled from that area and they were just a few from couple hundred thousands people also from 'Krajina'. It is just one example of ethnic cleansing from hundreds of them! Okay, Airma, why have you not answered my question about Vukovar and Dubrovnik? What is so hard about it ? I'm not talking about a lawsuit here, therefore I dont need a lawyer. I just wanted to hear your opinion on that and I know that was a very bitter question cuz it does contain the key-facts of the whole war situation in Croatia, big time!!! Although, I know that you d**n well know the 'correct' answer on the most of our discussion, but for some reason you have simply refused to admit them, you did even bother to twist them that drastically, why ? You know, Airma, I have met a lot of people from Serbia and they are pretty much aware of everything that happened here in Cro, and they also feel very guilty and ashamed for that as well as I feel like that when somebody mentions Jasenovac(WWII)...but unfortunately this is not a case with you yeah, good luck to both teams
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Post by Luka on Aug 29, 2004 13:05:54 GMT 1
......... Yugoslavia's constituent nations ought to spring. These nations accordingly need to be recognized as entities which transcend the boundaries between constituent republics. To take an example which is the source of considerable controversy right now, parts of the Serb nation have been inhabiting many areas of the federal republic of Croatia for centuries. Today they have a simple majority in about a third of its territory, even after the tremendous loss of life under the Ustasas during World War II. The Serbs' right to these lands was recognized in the ONLY international agreement dealing with this issue - the London Treaty of 1915, signed by the major Allied powers. As far back as the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the Serbs' rights there were codified in numerous charters by Habsburg monarchs, who sought to reward Serb warriors for their services to the Crown. Besides neither ethnic, nor legal, there are also no historical grounds for Yugoslavia's constituent nations to be split up by the arbitrarily drawn boundaries between administrative units. Serbian rights? What a moot subject? They have the same rights as any other CRO citizen. Anything else, to be privileged people, they lost in the war for Croatian independence.
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Post by Airma on Aug 29, 2004 17:06:11 GMT 1
Howdy Again,,
YOU SAID I know that you d**n well know the 'correct' answer on the most of our discussion, but for some reason you have simply refused to admit them, you did even bother to twist them that drastically, why ?
I SAID
When have I twisted anything? What I say is true. You just dont want to belive it, because it goes against your way of thinking.
In vukovar serbs were being expelled and croatia army (Rebels, there was no official army) were killing inncoent serbs and burning their houses/churches. JNA came in to stop the ethnically cleansing but were attacked and a war had started in the cit between CRO and SERB, many.
Dubrovnik!! Haha dont make me laugh!
Croat Army (Rebels) were losing many battles to JNA and were being pushed back to the south untill they finnaly fled to Dubrovnik. In Dubrovnik there were already statined JNA troops mostly from Montenegro. JNA did not wish to fight croats because Dubrovnik was a historic site which there are too be no battles in war. (Kinda like Venice in WW2) However croat rebels attacked the JNA and they had to fight back. They did not want to bomb the hell out of the place so they bombed it with low impact shells. (They could have used real bombs and flattended the city, but they didnt want to) In the end it was mostly just rooftops which were destroyed while the croat rebels had totally burned down serb churches and other serb properties.
In order for the croats to exagerrate what happened in Dubrovnik they took car tires to the beach where they set them on fire so that it would look as if all of dubrovnik was burning in flames. Latter used as propaganda tool by croat media. While in serbia they just zoomed in on the pictures and could clearely see it was just hundreds of tires buring.
YOU SAID You know, Airma, I have met a lot of people from Serbia and they are pretty much aware of everything that happened here in Cro, and they also feel very guilty and ashamed for that as well as I feel like that when somebody mentions Jasenovac(WWII)...but unfortunately this is not a case with you
I SAID
Its not the case with me??? What?? You dont even know me?? How dare you say that?? Trying to make yourself look like mother theresa while I am the devil?? Pretty funny!!
Dude,, of course I feel bad for the innocent people who had to die in the war (both serbs and croats) I wish to god it never happened, but what can I do?
Please dont constantly pre-judge people, Its rude and incorrect.
See ya latter, buddy
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Post by s vugrek on Aug 29, 2004 18:49:15 GMT 1
VUKOVAR : Vukovar was a modestly prosperous, sleepy, provincial town in eastern Croatia, near the border with Serbia, noted for its picturesque baroque architecture. That was before the war for Croatia's independence erupted in July 1991. By the end of its three-month siege at the hands of Serb forces in November 1991, Vukovar had become utterly devastated.
Vukovar suffered a three-month siege by Serb forces.
It was, perhaps, the most comprehensively destroyed town of any size in either Bosnia-Herzegovina or Croatia during the wars of the first half of the 1990s.
Capture of the town was an important strategic objective for the Serb-dominated Yugoslav army. It was designed to consolidate Serb control over the region of Croatia known as eastern Slavonia.
That objective was achieved, even though there was little left, apart from than ruins, following the siege.
It was also accompanied by the ethnic cleansing of Croats, who prior to the war were present in Vukovar municipality in roughly the same numbers as Serbs.
Mr Tudjman was accused of deliberately sacrificing Vukovar - dubbed the Croatian Stalingrad because of its devastation - so as to reinforce his portrayal of Croatia as the victim of Serb aggression.
Grim events
Vukovar has become a symbol of destruction - and atrocities.
When the Serb forces took control of Vukovar on 19 November 1991, several hundred people took refuge in the town's hospital in the hope that they would be evacuated in the presence of neutral observers.
A deal to that effect had earlier been agreed in negotiations between the Yugoslav army and the Croatian government.
But instead of the hoped-for evacuation, about 400 individuals - including wounded patients, soldiers, hospital staff and Croatian political activists - were removed from the hospital by Yugoslav army and Serb paramilitary forces.
According to The Hague Tribunal's indictment, which was originally issued in 1995, three Yugoslav army officers, Colonel Mile Mrksic, Major Veselin Sljivancanin and Captain Miroslav Radic, oversaw the removal of some 300 men to Ovcara farm, four kilometres outside Vukovar.
The detainees were beaten up. Some died of their injuries and approximately 260 of them were executed and then buried in a mass grave.
Details of the Vukovar massacre soon began to emerge as survivors reported on the events, and doubts began to appear about the large number of missing detainees.
But it took several years of exhumations and painstaking investigations to gather the evidence that formed the basis of the Tribunal's indictment.
Trail of guilt
Subsequently, the Tribunal also issued the first of its sealed, secret indictments; against the wartime Serb mayor of Vukovar, Slavko Dokmanovic.
With the three army officers out of the Tribunal's reach in President Slobodan Milosevic's Yugoslavia, and with the danger that Mr Dokmanovic might escape from eastern Slavonia across the border to Yugoslavia if he were to be publicly indicted, his arrest by UN forces was swiftly accomplished in 1996.
Two years later Mr Dokmanovic hanged himself in prison while awaiting the verdict at the end of his trial in The Hague.
Miroslav Radic: Accused of role in Vukovar massacre
Most wanted: The Vukovar three
Mr Mrksic and Mr Radic surrendered to the Tribunal after Belgrade began to enact laws on the extradition of indicted war crimes suspects last year.
Mr Sljivancanin's arrest will now make it possible to go ahead with the trial of all members of the group known as the "Vukovar Three".
Vukovar, as part of eastern Slavonia, was the only region of Croatia's rebel Serb-held areas to escape capture by the Croatian army in 1995.
Because it was spared a military campaign in that year with the subsequent refugee exodus, it has also remained the only region with a substantial ethnic Serb community.
After the Dayton peace treaty for Bosnia and the Erdut agreement for Croatia brought the wars in the region to an end, eastern Slavonia was placed under UN administration for two years.
It was finally reintegrated with Croatia in 1998. Since then the painful process of reconstruction has been underway.
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Post by s vugrek on Aug 29, 2004 18:57:29 GMT 1
VUKOVAR :
1998 -Vukovar is the Gravest "Greater Serbian" Crime and the Moral Bankruptcy of the International Community-
The scenes aired to the world from the location of the exhumation at the Vukovar New Cemetery "Dubrava" from last Tuesday were horrific. This is where the exhumation of the largest mass grave in post-war Europe is taking place. After seven years, the unique crime, not only for the soullessness of the perpetrators - rebel Serbs and the Yugoslav National Army (JNA) - but because of the fact that the conscience of the international community could watch it happening from day to day on their TV screens, saw the light of day. How successful were its representatives, the watchers of the modern world, when the TV cameras transmitted the picture of this 100 meter long grave, where 14 rows of 1,200 killed Croatian soldiers and civilians were buried after the occupation of Vukovar in 1991? It is enough just to look at the mass of black bodybags of the those killed and then buried two meters underground. Those people who used bulldozers to dig graves did not respect even the minimum requirements of international conventions: the bodies of those killed were crowded and were thrown one on top of the other, the corpses intertwined and wrapped by black bodybags, the kind used by the Yugoslav Army. The day after, on Wednesday, one hundred persons, members of 21 families arrived to the cemetery. All of them came to face the truth and the confirm the fate of their next of kin, to place a signature on a paper, confirming that seven years of searching and hope - that was somewhere deep inside them - has come to an end. There was an uncomfortable silence at the Vukovar cemetery on the second day of identification. People dressed in black, dismal expressions in their teary eyes, rain, pale faces and the occasional sob, bore witness to the memories of 1991.
"May God forgive me for not being able to forgive and forget: I see the murderer of my son in each of them," stated a teary eyed mother of 21 year old Croatian soldier, Robert Pinjuh, whose remains were identified along with those of his daughter, Violeta, and his relative, Boris.
Mirko and his family identified his brother, Croatian soldier Emil Aleksandar, and his wife. However, the search for the body of their 2 year old son, Matej, who was also killed with them in the shelling, continues.
The mass grave at the New Cemetery is also visited by surviving defenders, former prisoners of Serbian camps, loudly commenting, "this was meant for us all. Only God saved us from this destiny."
The identification will continue on Thursday. Another 20 families will return to the cemetery to identify their dead. First funerals will be held on Saturday May 2, the anniversary of the murder of 12 Croatian police officers in Borovo Selo (the first Slavonian victims of the Serbian aggression).
How do the representatives of the international community feel now, while supervising the exhumation of the largest mass grave in Europe since WWII?
One must be reminded that some of them, Cyrus Vance for example as a representative of the United Nations, were in Vukovar at the same time the massacre of Croats was taking place. Vance was right in front of the Vukovar Hospital and did not deem it appropriate to hand over a list of the wounded to the Croatian side.
Dr. Slobodan Lang made an apt comment at the Vukovar grave, "if the international community had a more serious way of saving Vukovar, these people might have been protected." Lang commented, "Now, the consequences of the collapse of humanitarian law in Vukovar will continue to shake the international community for a long time."
It is time to denounce all those who were on location as silent observers. They did - nothing. Shoulder to shoulder with Vance were representatives of all sots of organisations for human rights - Amnesty International, the International Committee for the Red Cross, commissions for human rights and refugees, the Security Council, Medicins sans Frontiers, European Community Monitors... Do they feel any guilt? Will they, at least, raise their voices today for Croatian suffering and testify as to what they saw in Vukovar, at the cemetery, in Ovcara, the hospital and many other mass graves from the Danube Valley region and the rest of Croatia, where thousands of victims have been exhumed and many more people are classified as missing.
During the days of madness, claims former witness from the hospital and currently Minister for Defenders Dr. Jure Njavro, over 800,000 projectiles were fired, which is equal to the force of an atomic bomb explosion. Almost 4,000 dead and a totally demolished city are the tragic testimony to the fact that, after the cynical behaviour of the world, Croatia - with the lives of its sons and daughters - stopped the seventy years advance of Serbia toward the West: they were stopped in Vukovar.
Because of all this, hundreds of funerals will be held weekly in Vukovar over the next month and a half. At the same time, the execution trio from the "Vukovar execution team", as their compatriots called them, are freely living in Serbia. Nobody is taking them to the Hague to testify to the fate of 260 men who were taken into custody and removed from the Vukovar Hospital and were executed at the killing fileds at Ovcara. The country they did this work for honoured them with highest military ranks.
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Post by Luka on Aug 29, 2004 19:18:03 GMT 1
Airma, So much cr*p, but still I admire your efforts. You must tell me your secret.
Re:Croatia and Serbia - we won the war and this is the endof the matter.
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Post by Airma on Aug 29, 2004 20:13:19 GMT 1
Svugrek, It seems your trying to put on a good show. Who told you these lies?? Was it Carla Del Ponte? Or maybe it was the croatian daily news???
Stop posting these stupid half truth propaganda articles which have always been completly anti-serb.
95% of what you posted is complete lies and twisted (twisted to death) truths. Sure, there may be some small truth to what you posted but what it lacks is "the other side". It is much more complex than that, and there is more to it. I could write a 5 page essay on how what you posted is lies and only half the truth...but why? why should I waste my energy on that? I have better things to do.
I know the truth. I know who the real culprit is, and I dont need any anti-serb propaganda articles to fill my head with lies.
I appreciate your trying to get out your point svugrek, but what you lack is "subjectivity". Even after reading some pro-serb information and aritcles I never took it as granted and as 100% true just because it was supposedly "my side" of the story. I would always go and ask croats what they thoulght of that and if there was something this article/info was not telling the readers.
You on the other hand, take any article or info that is anti-serb and which victimizes the croats and take it as granted and as complete truth without even questioning its intergrity.
Its been nice hearing from you Svugrek,, best wishes!
Airma
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