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Post by svugrek on Aug 30, 2004 1:56:59 GMT 1
the link you provided, is not just propaganda for me than for its authors too, dont you think ? America and Germany wanted Yugoslavia to split, so did Cuba and Trinidad=and=Tobago ? Does it really matter now ? This is off topic, we are talking here about reasons of the war in general. USA and Germany may have maybe supported this war and break-up of Yugoslavia, but they had done nothing to INITIALIZE the war!!! That is the difference, the reasons of this horrible war are available everywhere online, and i pasted them some of them on here. You can try search on Google, instead of copying the same articles from the same website, over and over. You will find 1000s of them, 95 percent of them were not made by Croats or Serbs than from other independent sources which I mostly used as well. When I said : "I am sorry you cant accept the fact Croatia is today finally an independent country that survived the worst ethic cleansing in Europe ever seen since the WWII" I dont find it funny at all, horrible ethnic cleansing happened in Croatia, but yes my country survived it! At one moment in 1991 there was around 600.000 refugees that were expelled from 'Krajina', eastern and western Slavonia, Bania, Kordun, Konavle etc etc etc. So tell me, why did Serbs kick and kill Croat civilians from 'Krajina' and created so called Serbian Republic Krajina in the heart of my country ? That happened in 1991 and lasted until 1995. Who gave you rights to do that ? Again, speaking of the website that you provided, I can make a 100 websites like that (i.e. how you were shelling Zagreb, Rijeka and Istria for months). But as i said already, if you really believe in such a stupidity that ethnic cleansing was made on Serbs, fine, then ask your government how come they don't file a lawsuit against my country if that cleansing really happened here, hmm ? Because it did not happen!!! Some certain isolated crimes did happen (are you happy now?), but that is really incomparable to what Serbs did from lost lives to material damage that reaches 30 billion dollars. Nice job.
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Post by svugrek on Aug 30, 2004 2:10:27 GMT 1
Ohh, one more thing, you know that in 1999 the Croatian government filed a lawsuit against Serbia and Montenegro. They came up with 2500 pages of documentation that were provided to the court and it is gonna be processed soon. Bosnia did the same. So what else can I say for the end...then good luck to you and your government.
goodbye
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Post by Airma on Aug 30, 2004 2:13:17 GMT 1
Svugrek, Svugrek, Svugrek,, if only you knew.......
"Krajina the heart of your country"?? What are you serb?
Krajina was a serparte enitity from croatia for over 400 years untill Tito absorb it into Croatia under his map revisions (the same ones that stated Kosovo and Vojvodina were autonomous)
Krajina was never part of Croatia , and what do you know about what iland is Cro's and what is Serbias. Croatia was not a soverign state before entering. Just like slovenia the croat people could have stayed with Austria-Hungary (Even Italy wanted parts of Cro absorbed) but the Cro people wanted to intergrate with Serbia into Yugoslavia.
Croatia entered Yugoslavia as a "people" NOT as a state. It had no real defined borders, and had no right to take Krajina with it in independnce, Krajina has never been a part of Cro untill Tito made it. Those communist borders were not the ones that were to gaurantee what the state of Croatia would be if it sepratted, only a way to govern.
I have no more to say to you. I find your posts and opinions usless and funny for that matter. You got rid of the serbs and your almost pure. Congrats, now leave us alone.
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Post by svugrek on Aug 30, 2004 3:13:47 GMT 1
Yes, The REPUBLIKA SRPSKA KRAJINA was established in the heart of Croatia, if it is in Croatia, then it means it is Croatian territory, isn't it maybe ? I really dont know what kind of logic you follow here. Whats that supposed to mean now that Krajina was never part of Croatia ? Did you hear Milosevic or Seselj saying that ? Now I can clearly see that i am dealing with a true Great Serbia ideologist. dear Airma, first of all ! Krajina although had Serbian minority living there, it was always Croatia and will stay in Croatia and Croatian, no matter what. How can you say that Croatia entered Yugoslavia like a nation, and not a state......well, Croatia was one of republics in Yugoslavia with its own borders, we were not like Gypsies with no homeland. We settled here in 7th century, and since then were in all sorts of alliances, kingdomes etc with most of our neighbours including your country that cost us a lot. Most of them ( Italians, Hungarians, Austrians, Serbs) had big appetites for Croatian lands. We had our state all the time, just we were not free as i said earlier...wooow, this is the first time I AGREED WITH YOU (kind of), can you believe it ? lol Anyhow, talking about majority Croats wanting to join Yugoslavia is also very questionable, I heard different versions of stories about it now after 50 years, but lets not go off topic again. Tito did not absorb Krajina into Croatia, it was always Croatia (look for old maps of Europe online ). What Tito did : he gave you Zemun and Istocni Srem (Srijem) that was part of Croatia, and today is in Serbia, and i am fine with that. And Istria and Dalmatia were returned back to Croatia where they belong. that is all
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Post by Airma on Aug 30, 2004 16:11:26 GMT 1
Svugrek, It was inpossible for croatia to enter Yuga as a state, because Croatia was not soverign before it entered. It was par of Autria-Hungary and Italy even had a bit of its currnet land for a while. When the croat people joined Yuga Tito created a new map revision which divided serbia into 4 parts and absorbed Dalmatia and Krajina, and Croatia into one state - CROATIA Your comment on how many Croats wanted to join Yugoslavia is questionable, however even in as far back as 1850 there was talk for a "South Slav Union" which would be a the grouping of the south slavic people as a doorway out of all the conquering and oppresion they faced over the last centuries. After WW1 serbia came out victorious, however Croatia and Slovenia were in limbo. Croatia and Slovenia could have been re-absorbed into Austria or even pat of it onto Italy, so they saw Yugoslavia as a way out of the losing side of the war. Although the balkans were not heavily developed Serbia was the most developed and after WW1 croatia and slovenia virtually had no industry or economy and needed Serbia to get back on track. If it wasnt for serbia you may still have been a underdevloped part of Austria and Itally!
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Post by svugrek on Aug 30, 2004 20:05:49 GMT 1
Svugrek, It was inpossible for croatia to enter Yuga as a state, because Croatia was not soverign before it entered. It was par of Autria-Hungary and Italy even had a bit of its currnet land for a while. When the croat people joined Yuga Tito created a new map revision which divided serbia into 4 parts and absorbed Dalmatia and Krajina, and Croatia into one state - CROATIA Dalmatia and Krajina were always part of Croatia just like Zagreb, Slavonia, Zagorje, Medjimurje, Posavina, Podravina, Istria etc. For your info, Dalmatia and Hercegovina are cradle of ancient Croatia. Krajina and Dalmatia were always ruled by Croats, while Serbs started to settle there far later and were minority.Your comment on how many Croats wanted to join Yugoslavia is questionable, however even in as far back as 1850 there was talk for a "South Slav Union" which would be a the grouping of the south slavic people as a doorway out of all the conquering and oppresion they faced over the last centuries. After WW1 serbia came out victorious, however Croatia and Slovenia were in limbo. Croatia and Slovenia could have been re-absorbed into Austria or even pat of it onto Italy, so they saw Yugoslavia as a way out of the losing side of the war. Although the balkans were not heavily developed Serbia was the most developed and after WW1 croatia and slovenia virtually had no industry or economy and needed Serbia to get back on track. Well, this is kinda true, but at that time Croatia and Slovenia were not considered Balkans than Central Europe. They were named Balkans after joined Yugoslavia cuz the biggest part of it was located on Balkan. And maybe they were not heavily developed, but they were far more developed than Serbia that was exhausted by Turks Ottomans that ruled there for 400-500 years. Anyhow try to find a book : Croatia - myth and reality, and you will see why some parts are very questionable about Croat's will to join Yugoslavia.If it wasnt for serbia you may still have been a underdevloped part of Austria and Itally! Hmm, like Serbia was very developed in ex Yugoslavia ? Maybe it was cuz of Croatia and Slovenia that were filling up Yugoslav budget. Just compare development of these two countries to Serbia today (cca. 30 years difference)
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Post by Airma on Aug 30, 2004 22:29:26 GMT 1
Croatia and Slovenia were far less developed than Serbia before Yugoslavia. Slovenia had almost no industry.
Tito was Croatian/Slovene and made sure Slovenia and Croatia would have the better economies. He purposly developed theirs more than Serbia. If it wasnt for Yugoslavia Cro would be 3rd world country.
PS- speaking of war, who plays BF- VIETNAM??
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Post by svugrek on Aug 30, 2004 23:54:34 GMT 1
Okay Airma, please tell me what kind of logic are you using here ? Okay, lets put this way, lets say for an example that you were right about Tito, if there were not Tito and Yugoslavia, Croatia and Slovenia would've been 3rd world countries. But dont you know when Tito died? How many years ago did Yugoslavia break up ? Do Croatia and Slovenia as independant countries today belong to the 3rd world ? Besides that Croatia survived severe destruction of infrastructure and economy in general. I agree that Serbia did as well due to Nato attacks, but still not nearly as Croatia did. But Serbia is a 3rd world country today, or at least struggles somewhere on the edge of 3rd world.
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Post by Airma on Aug 31, 2004 0:21:46 GMT 1
Sorry little boy, but I dont have time to teach you World History anymore!
Have a nice life kiddo!
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Post by Slava on Aug 31, 2004 0:40:11 GMT 1
Croatia and Slovenia were far less developed than Serbia before Yugoslavia. Slovenia had almost no industry. Tito was Croatian/Slovene and made sure Slovenia and Croatia would have the better economies. He purposly developed theirs more than Serbia. If it wasnt for Yugoslavia Cro would be 3rd world country. PS- speaking of war, who plays BF- VIETNAM?? I agree with you when you said "Tito was Croatian/Slovene and made sure Slovenia and Croatia would have the better economies. He purposly developed theirs more than Serbia. If it wasnt for Yugoslavia Cro would be 3rd world country." It is true!!! svugrek, grow up and read the history books.
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Post by svugrek on Aug 31, 2004 1:20:58 GMT 1
Excuse me ? Kiddo ? That is the easiest thing to call somebody names, if we are here to call each other names than this discussion is pointless. Whether I am some kiddo or not, doesnt mean i am less inteligent than two of you. My IQ is enough well developed to notice difference between Croatian and Serbian GDP and monthly wages, but once again, we are not in Yugoslavia and there is no Tito and the difference between Cro and Serbia is huge. So, when you say that Croats and Slovenes should be grateful to Tito and Yugoslavia for higher level of development, it does not make any sense, correct me if I am mistaken.
Your kiddo
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Post by AI on Aug 31, 2004 1:54:24 GMT 1
I just love this guy, he is so funny!!!! ;D Go take a look at your posts in the "Dumbest comment ever said about Croatia" thread, then talk to me about your IQ See ya latter Kid
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Post by Airma on Aug 31, 2004 1:56:52 GMT 1
I just love this guy, he is so funny!!!!
Go take a look at your posts in the "Dumbest comment ever said about Croatia" thread, then talk to me about your IQ
See ya latter Kid
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Post by s vugrek on Aug 31, 2004 2:45:33 GMT 1
hmm, is somebody again suffering from lack of 'wisdom' to make comments on my posts? Airma, i know you have involved your alter ego 'AI' and 'Slava', but do it more discretely next time. Okay ? Thanks
kiddo
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Post by Airma on Aug 31, 2004 3:00:28 GMT 1
AI is me, Slava is not Listen up champ,, dont take anything to seriously. Your young, and you havent lived long enough in Yuga to understand anything. Its not your fault. Cheer Up
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