A new book about Croatia's history

[valiant]

i agree with emiz. theres too much bs all over croatias history all the way to what croats say of themselves and croatia today. after living here for 9 years ...i still every day experience things that iritate me. from politicians who crap on and ripp of their own country, to an arrogant , jelous , all knowing social culture where everyone is too proud to admit a weakness of anykind or laugh at themselves . theres no moving foreward if we dont come to terms with the truth. i grew up with my parents telling me how a free croatia, run by croats ,will be the place to live, especially for someone of croat origin.i hanged out with the croat crowd in australia , overall .... bad memmories and a destructive experience. now i regret that and most things croatian , im so sorry to say. ive had no privelages since moving here and i honestly , and with alot of anger , genuinely believe that for listening to all the crap ive been fed over the years and believeng some of it , i deserve privelages. but instead i feel like ive been thrown to the crocodiles since moving here . im slowly learning to swim here , but in the process im coming to terms and dealing with the crap , atleast on a personal level. cos theres not much i can do here without being rich, so that i can have any influence at all. this country is corrupt. the people are actors , and the honest are often the brainwashed pacifists . and the ones who vote for the same old crapers. people here who grew up in communism actually admire our "highly educated" doctor , proffessor , scientist hahha. politicians. they still havent figured out that they are being played by their own leaders who dont give a crap about croatias "history and culture" . or they are forgiving them or something. i cant figure it out.
some things that irritate me.
the mayor of dubrovnikk has a huge house that has (no building permit), she wanted to take her neighbour to court becuase he was building a house that was going to block her view of dubrovniks walled city. that ....to me...is efing sooooo irritating that it makes me sick.
croatia is full of problems like this. in all aspects of anything thats "legal" or illegal.
the lady on hvar that works in the council , writing property over to herself. hahhahaha .
and then that poor josip saric guy takes the d...heads in rijeka council hostage , they make a fool out of him and he ends up in jail. i know for a fact that so many people would have done the same thing but dont have the balls. weird in a country thats full of war invalids . thats probably why the guy in zadar burned himself to death , cos he fought for this country and what did he get out of it is it even his country at all??? if im not free in this country then how can i feel as if it is my country? how can i love my country if its full of so much bs that i cant fart without a permit.
you have to be a quick thinker in croatia. very quick to figure out that your being played , and very quick to respond adeqautley to any idiot hiding behind the "law" . having aloooooot of money , or even a fake identity could help. image is sooo important in croatia. people read you here by the shoes and socks you wear . it goes far beyond first impressions. thats why the girls in split dress the way they do.its all a big show with soooo many actors trying to make money and a name for themselves. like little children .

[Old Guest]

Guest-EMIZ said:

... don't respond because you don't know how to be objective. You’re a self declared nationalist.

Hmmm, have I ever declared myself as nationalist ?

[EMIZ]

Not that I am aware of. I don't think you're a nationalist.

My only issue with you is you blame every problem in Croatia on everybody apart from Croats.

[Old Guest]

valiant said:

i agree with emiz. theres too much bs all over croatias history all the way to what croats say of themselves and croatia today. after living here for 9 years ...i still every day experience things that iritate me. from politicians who crap on and ripp of their own country, to an arrogant , jelous , all knowing social culture where everyone is too proud to admit a weakness of anykind or laugh at themselves . theres no moving foreward if we dont come to terms with the truth. i grew up with my parents telling me how a free croatia, run by croats ,will be the place to live, especially for someone of croat origin.i hanged out with the croat crowd in australia , overall .... bad memmories and a destructive experience. now i regret that and most things croatian , im so sorry to say. ive had no privelages since moving here and i honestly , and with alot of anger , genuinely believe that for listening to all the crap ive been fed over the years and believeng some of it , i deserve privelages. but instead i feel like ive been thrown to the crocodiles since moving here . im slowly learning to swim here , but in the process im coming to terms and dealing with the crap , atleast on a personal level. cos theres not much i can do here without being rich, so that i can have any influence at all. this country is corrupt. the people are actors , and the honest are often the brainwashed pacifists . and the ones who vote for the same old crapers. people here who grew up in communism actually admire our "highly educated" doctor , proffessor , scientist hahha. politicians. they still havent figured out that they are being played by their own leaders who dont give a crap about croatias "history and culture" . or they are forgiving them or something. i cant figure it out.
some things that irritate me.
the mayor of dubrovnikk has a huge house that has (no building permit), she wanted to take her neighbour to court becuase he was building a house that was going to block her view of dubrovniks walled city. that ....to me...is efing sooooo irritating that it makes me sick.
croatia is full of problems like this. in all aspects of anything thats "legal" or illegal.
the lady on hvar that works in the council , writing property over to herself. hahhahaha .
and then that poor josip saric guy takes the d...heads in rijeka council hostage , they make a fool out of him and he ends up in jail. i know for a fact that so many people would have done the same thing but dont have the balls. weird in a country thats full of war invalids . thats probably why the guy in zadar burned himself to death , cos he fought for this country and what did he get out of it is it even his country at all??? if im not free in this country then how can i feel as if it is my country? how can i love my country if its full of so much bs that i cant fart without a permit.
you have to be a quick thinker in croatia. very quick to figure out that your being played , and very quick to respond adeqautley to any idiot hiding behind the "law" . having aloooooot of money , or even a fake identity could help. image is sooo important in croatia. people read you here by the shoes and socks you wear . it goes far beyond first impressions. thats why the girls in split dress the way they do.its all a big show with soooo many actors trying to make money and a name for themselves. like little children .

Well, don't get me wrong, but judging other people by way they are "acting in public" is little bit imature, and more related to personal frustrations then "social critisizm".

Life is everything but "fair", same in Croatia as everywhere else (except in UK and around EMIZ). You can count on privileges only if you are born with "silber spoon in your mouth", meaning - if you are ritch. Becoming member of any group can only devlelop "fake hopes" which will react in "social frustration".

I am not attacking you or your oppinion, but exactly same "syndrome" is recognizable in your case, as in case of those you are using as exmple of diviated moral in Croatia.

All was expecting "privileges" based on irational believes or some "dogmas" ... and since they never come, "inpatience" reacted in destructive social behaviours.

Croatia is different in this case, because socialy it has scale of decent city on west, and it is very "beige" socialy.

It is hard to blame comunism for this, because comunism hasnt sucessfully created man, it was allways opposite ... same as with all other dogmas and/or wide accepted socilal "misbehaviours".

So, if you believed in some privilege based on religious dogma, and now feel dissapointed ... wellcome in real world - same you will hear from any people living under bridge or in box in New York, Paris or Berlin. Just "dogma" will have different name, and more or less people are sharing it.

Croatia suffered wide "dogmatic anti-climatic" experience, and never experienced - catarsic heal.

Each drama is drama only if it is tragic, and each dramatic hero becomes one by - poore accident, or in renesanse "by Gods will" ... Unfortunately - it is life, and you are experiencing drama in small, smelly and dirty theater with lot of drunk people around enjoying same "tragic ending" over and over.

If I was you, and had opportunity, I will change theater and see which fits my taste, instead of identifieing myself with "actors" so much too loose contact with reality.

This is why Croatia is best country in the world only if you are "extremly ritch". You can paint walls of theater in any colors you like ... but show will stay same. Unfortunately.

[valiant 1]

guest- you are overcomplicating something thats soooo simple. (typical yugo balkan thing to overcomplicate simple matters) .corruption, greed , jelousy, all the worst human qualities are ruining and running down backwards croatia. not that its people already werent ruining it. but things are not getting better. and the only reason i brought up public examples is that so others know what im talking about by giving a public example that everyone knows about.

[Old Guest]

Guest-valiant said:

guest- you are overcomplicating something thats soooo simple. (typical yugo balkan thing to overcomplicate simple matters) .corruption, greed , jelousy, all the worst human qualities are ruining and running down backwards croatia. not that its people already werent ruining it. but things are not getting better. and the only reason i brought up public examples is that so others know what im talking about by giving a public example that everyone knows about.

Well, if "overcomplicating" is yugo balcan thing exclusively ... they will be center of the world in everything what metters.

Humans psyha is everytheng but not simple. And "simplification" is not cure for anthing ... but I guess you are still too young to not defend yourself with "simplifications" and "generalisation" ...

So, if you are trying to disquilify me as "yugo balkan" tribe member . what can I say ... keep it simple and enjoy.

[Ribaric]

Any chance of getting back to the general thrust of the the thread? I'd like to see a quick review of the other books mentioned earlier, anyone keen to go ahead?

[Old Guest]

Ribaric said:

Any chance of getting back to the general thrust of the the thread? I'd like to see a quick review of the other books mentioned earlier, anyone keen to go ahead?

Ups ... sorry ... Ivo Goldstein is very objective, writes excellent and has authority as scientist. I recomend him as best reading over Croatias history.

Somehow he doesn't see Croatias history full of BS's (maybe he is "overcomplicating" just because he is overeducated Croatian Jew) .. and he is not rasist in any "civilised and acceptable way" ... so not some good reading for "ubermenches" with specific royal weading dressing taste (some will call it - bad taste bordering with crime, but not me).

[Ribaric unplugged]

Thanks for this, I'll get a copy and maybe reinforce my knowledge and, perhaps, modify some views.