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Post by Culchie on Apr 14, 2005 15:12:04 GMT 1
..... and this is pertinent to another thread is this political debate forum.
It is ironic that the English people (undeservedly so) feel the wrath of many different nationalities around the world because of the 'English Political' system and the decisions they take, especially in areas of foreign policy.
What is ironic about it, is that, IMHO, in general, there is not another nation that I can think of that has less interest in politics. The gulf between the political class/policy makers from the ordinary man/woman in the street is the greatest that I know of......both in ideology and practicality.....Herein lies the danger....as ignorance is born, quickly followed by disinterest, and what happens then is the country is easily led.
Easily led by a certain political and intelligence network of influential people who can affect the lives of millions for their own personal and economic gain (at home and abroad)..... and yet the man on the street either (a) Knows nothing about it (b) Doesn't care less and (c) As they are not armed with the information, do not possess the intelligence to challenge their political leaders.
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Post by Olg Guest on Apr 14, 2005 16:07:27 GMT 1
Do Croatians and Bosnians get along ?
Well, it's hard to say what does this means, because Bosnians doesn't exist as self declared civil-society group with "nation" marks, and shared mutual interests (except those they obligated by signing Dayton agreement, and "Bosnian-Muslim" government leaders was one of 4 signs on it).
We can speak only about ethnic groups and one religion getting along in Bosnia or not. And exactly this made such confusion about Bosnia ... Here is spoken like there are some "Bosnians" jeopardized by ethnic groups in their attempt to establish multinational and happy civil society of western type.
Truth is that there is just forced "written agreement" to legally determine "borders" on two levels - general (which is divided on two separate federal units), and local, with international protector to balance "powers" on both levels.
Mostly, political situation in Bosnia is on level of "war freezing" transitioning into - "peace keeping". Prosperity, and general ideas are moved aside, and so far they wait for times when Bosnia will be prepared for EU, same what is planed for Kosovo. And so far "laboratory results" are not encouraging ...
On general level Bosnia consists of Bosnian Federation (Muslims and Croats) plus Republic Of Srpska, and on local level it is divided on ethnical/religious principles (except in Republic of Srpska), gaining power from statistical measures.
So, ethnicities in Bosnia on level of civil society, except maybe in Sarajevo (if we are enough "romantic" to still believe in fairy tails) - doesn't exist. "Entities" (how Dayton agreement calls them) mostly don't develop "relations" (one that are not forced by administration) or participate in political "mutual interests" on level of Bosnia sharing wider interest then just "keeping peace stable", and usually even if they start, they quickly become "unbalanced" and collide with "jurisdictions" of protector.
So, how to extract answer for "simple" question out from this ?
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 18:46:02 GMT 1
ok whats the difference between a bosnian croat and a croat from Croatia and how do they percieve each other?
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Post by barba Jere on Apr 14, 2005 19:31:13 GMT 1
well difference is in menthality. Zes Zagreb people especially those born here and those whous parents and grandparents were born in Zagreb see Herzegovians as simple to say primitive,people with no manners or people who got rich fast and are flashing their wealth in a kitchy unsofisticated way.
There is a word for them is OgnjiĊĦtarci those who will always stay close to patriachic menthality. There is a lot of envy here and unsubstantiated criticism but some of those Bosnian Croats bare responsibility for such stereotype by behaving the way they do.
The problem is that it has been for years that CIty (Zagreb) was changing behaviour of newcomers from rural to urban. Now those rural types are trying to keep their rural mentalty and impose it to urban dwellers since they have more money upon their arrival.
I can tell you that Zagreb became more rural since the war in mentality spectre.
Sorry for some wrong spelling but word spell check killed my ability to spell write and here im not getting red underliend words.
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Post by valiant 1 on Apr 14, 2005 20:07:15 GMT 1
they get along , if you can call it that , but they tend to stick to their own groups. does anyone get along with anyone in croatia? i rekon its mostly about putting up with someone rather than getting along with someone. people have their own littlle social circles. very closed to new people .
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 20:39:11 GMT 1
don't let these comments dissuade you from talking to the locals...it probably evens out...how many not a very nice persons there are per capita in croatia and elsewhere. I think alot of croatians are interested in people who visit their country...its like anywhere really...not every stranger you meet is going to want to have a conversation...and you may not want to talk to just any person you meet on the street either. croatia is a great place to go on vacation!
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Post by Girl form Zagreb on Apr 14, 2005 22:13:54 GMT 1
Barba Jere explained it very well. I would just like to add that what bothers Croatians is not that Herzegovians got reach fast, but the fact that a lot of them did it in dishonest way with the silent blessing of the politiacians. Also, this is not just an attitude from the people form Zagreb, but this opinion is expressed by people all over Croatia - in Split, Osijek, Istria, Dubrovnik...you name it. Another thing is that there are people of Croatian nationality living in some parts of Bosnia as well, which is often forgotten. It goes for the parts of Bosnia close to the Slavonian border, and for some strange reason, they never gor the level of protection that Herzegovina did from Croatia...I would hate to think it had something to do with money...hmmm
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Post by Reg Reagon on Apr 23, 2005 1:52:31 GMT 1
ok whats the difference between a bosnian croat and a croat from Croatia and how do they percieve each other? Thats just like asking wat is the difference between englishman from the north and the ones from the south. Every country in the world has regional piss taking. Italy has rivalry between nth and sth, croatias region hav rivalries too dalmatia, slavonia, lika , istra etc etc. The U.S has rivalries between east and west its all good fun. Australia has mass rivalries between sydney and melbourne, who cares its funny ;D
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 23, 2005 3:25:40 GMT 1
i dunno seems like a simple answer to the varied and complex issues facing Bosnia post-war.
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Post by A Croat on May 24, 2005 20:11:20 GMT 1
Thats just like asking wat is the difference between englishman from the north and the ones from the south. Every country in the world has regional piss taking. Italy has rivalry between nth and sth, croatias region hav rivalries too dalmatia, slavonia, lika , istra etc etc. The U.S has rivalries between east and west its all good fun. Australia has mass rivalries between sydney and melbourne, who cares its funny ;D Absolutelly right! I have been many times in croats dominated areas in Bosnia-Herzegovina and can tell you that you vill not see any noticeable difference beetwen croatian villages in B-H och croatian villages in Croatia,or croatian cities in B-H vs croatian cities in Croatia,except nature itself. Zagreb is a capitol with 800.000 inhabitans and they have slightly tendencies to see yourself as superior to anyone who`s coming from some another part of Croatia or B-H. But,its nothing serious,probably the same way a London resident see someone from some little place in Wales As a matter of facts,a croat from Herzegovina is major of Zagreb now,for second time. There is differencies,but they are merely regional as Reg Reagon mentioned!
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on May 25, 2005 0:10:13 GMT 1
Reg Reagon i have to disagree with your comparison of North and South Englishman. You must remember that prior to Yugoslavia the Ottoman Empire and Habsburg Empire existed, as such todays Croatia and Bosnia were on different sides of the divide.
With Croatia in the Habsburg and Austro-Hungarian Empire and Bosnia in the ottoman empire there were great differences - culture, behaviour, rural-urban spread - all these factors play a big part in the difference between the two peoples.
If you read the Old Guest post you will find it is spot on, although it may sound complex it is true. The same applies to Croatian Serbs and Bosnian Serbs - there is no common history and as such clear differences exist, of course their are also similarities but not to the extent that it is as similar as just local north and south differences.
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Post by star on May 25, 2005 0:24:05 GMT 1
What is this I keep hearing about people from hercegovina and white socks? I hear that alot from other croats and serbs when they make fun of them.
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Post by Ghost Writer on May 25, 2005 8:40:02 GMT 1
What is this I keep hearing about people from hercegovina and white socks? I hear that alot from other croats and serbs when they make fun of them. hehehehe ;D ;D ;D It is true they wear them with sandals.... they were them with everything..... It looks quite stupid. Sorry I would make fun of anyone that wears white socks and sandals... it looks ridiculous.
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Post by EMIZ on May 25, 2005 9:33:08 GMT 1
I would prefer to see people in white socks in sandals as apposed to people in Zagreb, all of them look exactly the same, all desperate to be the coolest cat in town yet all the cats look the same.
Most of the young Zagreb girls wear Sun glasses that make them look like flies....bzzzz.
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croam
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Post by croam on May 27, 2005 16:48:32 GMT 1
emiz the croat women are pretty hot....give em a break...
those sunglasses you speak of would look great on my nightstand... are you truly that negative? Maybe your MI6 propoganda machine...ahahahaha
im just messin' with ya a little ole boy...don't get all pissed off. do take a look at that sinking' mess that could have been called the EU. Ahhhhhhh...maybe its time for Germans,Brits,and Italians to be the second class citizens of Europe. Let the tables turn. ;Demiz the croat women are pretty hot....give em a break...
those sunglasses you speak of would look great on my nightstand... are you truly that negative? Maybe your MI6 propoganda machine...ahahahaha
im just messin' with ya a little ole boy...don't get all pissed off. do take a look at that sinking' mess that could have been called the EU. Ahhhhhhh...maybe its time for Germans,Brits,and Italians to be the second class citizens of Europe. Let the tables turn.
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