Is Mesic a competetent politician?

[star]

I was never quite sure until I read this article:

Another disheartening problem appears to be complete ignorance. At a meeting I attended in November 2001 with President Mesić and then Foreign Minister Picula, I forcefully made the point that public relations was an important component to Croatia’s success in gaining entry into Euro-Atlantic institutions. I specifically pointed out that many of America’s leading newspapers, magazines and officials believe that the Croatian flag is an Ustashe flag, a belief stemming from Greater Serbian propaganda in the 1990s.

Mesić’s then foreign policy advisor, Tomislav Jakšić, completely denigrated my point, noting that Mesić had met with President Bush that morning and would certainly not have allowed the Croatian flag to be displayed if he believed it to be an Ustashe one. When I pointed out that nevertheless such newspapers as The New York Times have routinely made such an assertion, Jakšić stated that The New York Times was “just one newspaper.”

Obviously, such a response from anyone who knew anything about America could only be termed idiotic. That it came from a person who had the ear of the Croatian President made it distressing.

At least Tudjman was savvy enough to know and utilize the power of the media.

[star]

Woops, forgot the link:

www.croatianchronicle.com/read/16/tekst-02.html

[star]

Btw, please excuse the typos. Its just before bedtime and I can't edit my posts. ;D

[3lions]

he's still an old commie

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

3lions i dont think it matters that Mesic was an ex-commie as you put it, they werent all bad and they werent all corrupt.

In terms of the media, I think this is being overplayed, we have all seen how a population can be tricked into believing in a cause (The Iraq war comes to mind) by media but the issue here is that this only tends to happen in support of the government. What i mean by this was the US and UK governments needed to canvass support for a war and so used every media known to man to achieve this.

In terms of Croatia, it would be very difficult to fight the viewpoint of the EU and member countries by some simple PR or opinion article, it wont work and their is no guarantee it will be published - I think to believe it is as easy as this is incredibly naive.

I would agree that Croatia under Tudjman, particularly at the time of the war was very good at PR. But those circumstances compared to today are very different, Croatia is now seen as a nice place to go on holiday but apart from that just another Eastern European country. If i am honest i dont think even the tourism is very well promoted/'marketed.

In terms of the question of Mesic, is he competent? - i think he is competent but nothing more. He certainly isnt going to set Europe on fire with his abilities. If you want to see a dynamic, competent politician look at Tony Blair, but also bare in mind that it is also the people around them.

[Ribaric]

It's not often I disagree with CroSerbAb but this is one such case.

Mesic. He's not charismatic and gives the appearance of being a bit dull. I believe his key roll is to reduce his own powers and pass them to the parliament, this is all part of the anti-totalitarianism espoused by the EU "this is how democracy is done" department. Tudjman was too powerful, Molisevic was too, neither was answerable to electorate in anything other than name. Even Bush has to campaign for election.
Mesic cannot convince the "western world" that Croatia has moved away from a government of presidential decree whilst he has sway over policy irrespective of the parliament. In this case, I believe Mesic is doing a great job, by making himself largely redundant whilst not being irrelevant - a truly difficult path to follow.

As for PR - I believe this is absolutely key. Image and perception are hugely influential, the major multi-nationals know that and spend fortunes with Saatchi and the like to make the world believe in what they are doing. No major undertaking (like a country!) can get people to regard them in a positive light unless there is a significant PR strategy and roll-out operation. Nike is the world's leader in my view - despite they allegedly indirectly employ child slaves all over the world. Every wants to wear the tick!

[valiant 1]

mesic is not a competent politician.
look at croatias economy.
the same old commies have been sitting in their seats of power since the end of the war.

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

Ribaric i take your point on Mesic as a politician, i dont believe he is a particularly effective politician, i would have loved to have seen Boris Miksic triumph at the last elections since i feel a character like that would have unsettled Mesic and many former communists.

But i would still argue the PR point, i would urge you not to mix up corporate promotion and country promotion, these are two very distinct characteristics. The point you make regarding Nike is very interesting, yes they promote the brand heavily but many people are aware of the labour trade, but they still buy the brand? - because what happens in another country does not outweigh the fact that they want to look good in the latest trainers.

In the same respect, Croatia can promote its tourism and people will visit but when it comes to aspects such as EU entry, people will not rally their governments no matter how effective the promotion is. It will always come down to countries self interests - PR or no PR.

Look at Zimbabwe, can there PR be any worse?,

[Old Guest]

Guest-CroatianSerbAbroad said:

Ribaric i take your point on Mesic as a politician, i dont believe he is a particularly effective politician, i would have loved to have seen Boris Miksic triumph at the last elections since i feel a character like that would have unsettled Mesic and many former communists.

Hmmm ... Boris Miksic ... If you bought this character as "anti-comunist" one ... then, this is prove how PR is inefective.

This character made fortume by ploting with Tudjman during war (they fighted over money latter), and he gained "poularity" by nationalistic rethorics and supporting Gotovina ...

And believe it or not Miksic lost elections (must be that "orhodox Croatians" become majority in meantime, right Irac?) ... together with second character - "Kosor", who was there mostly to gain popularity of Mesic (Sanader is not stuppid - he knows that all of his real enemies are still in HDZ, and Mesic is Gods blessing for him).

[valiant]

i agree with cro serb. i also voted for miksic. i couldnt believe the anti miksic media propaganda all of a sudden. where did they get there pictures from and exagerated storys ?miksic is obviously a serious threat to all the bums in croatias sabor.

[star]

valiant said:

i agree with cro serb. i also voted for miksic. i couldnt believe the anti miksic media propaganda all of a sudden. where did they get there pictures from and exagerated storys ?miksic is obviously a serious threat to all the bums in croatias sabor.

The following article may shed some light on things. Don't know how biased it is though, he sounds very bitter:

www.hic.hr/english/other-perspective.htm#quo

On top of that, many in Croatia seem to be very suspicious of those in the diaspora, since many are very anti- Mesic. Check out this article. It seems to confirm what many have been saying about Croatia all along:

By Dr. Ante Cuvalo, Chicago



The Vecernji list published a brief article on the 13th of March, 2005, about the recent encounter of a former Minister in the Croatian government, a member of Parliament, and president of the Croatian Tennis Alliance, Mr. Radomir Cacic, with Croatians living in California. The engagement was so �stormy� that some Croatians from Los Angeles and San Pedro publicly expressed their displeasure at statements uttered by Mr. Cacic such as: �corruption is inbred in our people,� or that he �became rich the easy way, and most especially during the war.� He also uttered statements such as: �things are done in Croatia according to feudal practices,� and that the members of the politico-economic elite in Croatian, regardless of their party affiliation manage to �come to a mutual understanding among themselves,� when transfer (the so-called privatization) of state-owned property is in question. He went on to say that �there is no reason why any state-owned property should be sold to Croatian �migr�s when we in Croatia can buy it ourselves�we too have money.�



The statements made by Cacic speak volumes. They deserved far more space in the Croatian media than the brief article in Vecernji list provides�not for the purpose of attacking Mr. Cacic or so that a protest can be mounted because of his statements. Stipe Bubalo was right when he responded�somewhat reluctantly�to Mr. Cacic in San Pedro�s Hrvatski Dom by thanking him for his frankness.



The �hot potato� remarks made by Cacic need to be addressed with a bit more reflection. The former Minister and present representative in the Croatian Parliament�a man in the very center of governmental power�publicly states that lawlessness reigns in Croatia; that he became rich through muddy deals; that party opposition isn�t the result of various strategies and options seeking a better future for Croatia, but little more than multi-colored smoke and mirrors. What is most disturbing is that he�and by extension, other members of his class�believes that corruption is �inbred in our people.� This, I suppose, means that there is no hope that a rule of law will serve as the road to a societal and economic rebirth. Judging by his statements, it matters little to him or to the ruling class that the existing �feudal system� be changed since the system assured him�as he himself states�ownership of seventeen businesses.



We frequently hear that Croatia desires foreign investments. However, in view of the statements made by Cacic in California, investments by Croatian �migr�s are not welcome. It is perfectly normal and realistic that he, or anyone else in Croatia, should sooner wish to buy what is up for auction than someone in far-off California. However, as far as we can see from what is happening in Croatia as relates to transfer of state-owned properties, it is all a matter of shuffling papers and spending money that seems to circulate in the same closed circle as opposed to the introduction of fresh new capital into the Croatian economy. It is clear that this can be done without difficulty since �we manage to come to a mutual understanding among ourselves��regardless of party affiliation. This is why no former or present government in Croatia is willing to raise the issue of the transfer of state-owned property. Why would they spoil a good thing for themselves?



Aside from the �feudal system of state-owned property transfer,� what bothers many Croatian �migr�s is the question that asks by what logic are foreign (non-Croatian) investments in banks, hotels, the media, telephone, etc., accepted and valued as something positive while investments by Croatian �migr�s are seen as undesirable�what is more, are rejected in a very primitive manner? If no logic is to be found in this, then what is at play? Is there some fear of Croatian �migr�s and their capital at play? If such fear does exist, then what is the cause of such fear?



In all likelihood, Mr. Cacic disenchanted and frayed the nerves of Croatians in California. I am just as convinced that Croatian Californians did as much for him. Nonetheless, perhaps their encounter was more beneficial than we might think. Cacic revealed what is in his heart through his statements. He showed us a true picture of the ruling class in Croatia. On the other hand, his hosts in the Hrvatski Dom in San Pedro pointed out (we hope) to him (and his like-minded friends) that many Croatian �migr�s are not only concerned about a �stari kraj� that they sometimes wish to visit out of sentimentality, but are concerned about a homeland that is as much theirs as it is his. They further pointed out that what is happening in Croatia is not all the same to them. They want Cacic to know that they can and want to be a part of Croatia�s (better) future. Furthermore, it is clear to all who care about Croatia that much sweat and tears will be needed if Croatia is to become a land that we, our children, and grandchildren will not only visit but will one day return to her and invest our intelligence and money in her future. This is nothing more than �emotion� for Cacic. For those who are reasonable and well-intentioned, this should be a part of the Croatian national program.



Dr. Ante Cuvalo, Chicago

Translated by Dusko Condic, Chicago

Published in Croatian - Hrvatski Vjesnik, Australia, March 24, 2005

voiceofcroatia.net/Croatia_and_the_Croatians.htm

[Old Guest]

Miksic is treath only for himself ... He was complaining about elections, had opportunity to go at supreme court - but he didn't.

He had opprtunity to sue medias for "lieing" about him - but he didn't.

His "program" was far from serious ("we will make deal with USA - so nobody will ask for Gotovina"), and rethorics - poore.

Miksic gained popularity only because nationatists sow him as far better option then Kosor (woman as candidate was "slap in face" for them, and Sanader knew it).

[valiant]

no oldguest. i myself am from the diaspora , now i live in cro. i know where miksic is coming from and when he explains his policies , i know exactly what he means and what he wants to do . the commies in sabor crap themselves at the sight of miksic in the media . i see the corruption and wicked propaganda from a mile , probably better than people who grew up in croatia . miksic , at the moment is the only hope for improving croatias economy . it will be the miracle of all miracles if the commies let him slip through their web of wicked corruption and greed and into the sabor . miksic wasnt as serious as the others in the election because he didnt have or see the need to sell himself like our commies who spend our money to convince us of their worth. i grew up in australia and theres no way that my idea of a prosperous and civilised society can be similar to what our commies in power think that is. it is unbelievable that our politicians are hopeless and corrupt and when eleczion time comes again ...people still vote for them, for mesic and hdz. but miksic was there , he even had his policy promises approved by a javni biljeznik ...he was prepared to leave politics if he doesnt achieve his goal of a better croatia. and even if the javni biljeznik contract with the people of croatia means nothing in a corrupt croatia ...im sure that if miksic didnt go through to achieve the goals he promises , that the croatian people and sabor would get rid of him very quickly because he is from the diaspora , he will never be one of them., . unfortuantely ...hdz ..gained votes from the diaspora who arent aware of how it is to live in croatia under hdz control .

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

Regardless of whether Miksic was a good choice or not, the perception of Croatia as a country would have improved.

Miksic is a dynamic entrepreneur, his sheer presence and commercial links would have helped Croatia. Abroad, countries would have admired the appointment of such a man and it would have been an indication to many that Croatians wanted to put the past behind them and move forward economically and progressively.

[Old Guest]

valiant said:

no oldguest. i myself am from the diaspora , now i live in cro. i know where miksic is coming from and when he explains his policies , i know exactly what he means and what he wants to do . the commies in sabor crap themselves at the sight of miksic in the media . i see the corruption and wicked propaganda from a mile , probably better than people who grew up in croatia . miksic , at the moment is the only hope for improving croatias economy . it will be the miracle of all miracles if the commies let him slip through their web of wicked corruption and greed and into the sabor . miksic wasnt as serious as the others in the election because he didnt have or see the need to sell himself like our commies who spend our money to convince us of their worth. i grew up in australia and theres no way that my idea of a prosperous and civilised society can be similar to what our commies in power think that is. it is unbelievable that our politicians are hopeless and corrupt and when eleczion time comes again ...people still vote for them, for mesic and hdz. but miksic was there , he even had his policy promises approved by a javni biljeznik ...he was prepared to leave politics if he doesnt achieve his goal of a better croatia. and even if the javni biljeznik contract with the people of croatia means nothing in a corrupt croatia ...im sure that if miksic didnt go through to achieve the goals he promises , that the croatian people and sabor would get rid of him very quickly because he is from the diaspora , he will never be one of them., . unfortuantely ...hdz ..gained votes from the diaspora who arent aware of how it is to live in croatia under hdz control .

hmmm okay ...commies, and commies ...

First ... everything what Miksic was talking about is above jurisdictions of President Of Republic, by Croatias constitution. Interesting points he made about Gotovina and relations between Croatia and USA ...

He could promise "Space program" if he wanted ... but he (as future president of republic) has no authority over such issues.

He can sign whatever he want's, especialy that he will improve economy when become president ... but he can't touch economy - not presidents jurisdiction.

If using war for personal benefits in deal with Tudjman is not "robbery and corruption", then I don't know what is.

Or "Croats from diaspora" just knows everything better, as they proved with huge scientifical, political and cultural achievements so far, here and abroad ?