Referendum in SLO

[ray51]

Any bets on the outcome ?

[kesterj]

Slovenes tell me that it's evens, with about 1/3 of voters undecided at the last count - before the one that really counts, that is.

[boris]

The Slovenes said YES! 51.5% in favor, 48.5 against. Bless them! Now Croatia is one big step closer to the EU.

[boris]

LJUBLJANA, June 6 (Agency report) - The 'yes' vote was leading in a Slovenian referendum on a border arbitration deal with Croatia that is vital for Zagreb's EU membership bid, a count of 60 percent of the vote showed.

With 98 percent of votes counted, 51.6 percent of Slovenes approved the deal, the state electoral commission said.

The vote should boost Croatia's chances to join the European Union in 2012.

Under the border arbitration deal, an international team will settle a dispute over the land and sea border that dates from the 1991 break-up of Yugoslavia. The ruling would be binding for both countries.

"This is a historic decision," Prime Minister Borut Pahor told national TV Slovenia after partial results were out.

Slovenia joined the European Union in 2004, the only former Yugoslav state so far to have done so. Like any other EU member, it can veto Croatia's progress towards membership.

Pahor's centre-left government has made ending the dispute with Croatia its main foreign policy goal. Slovenia blocked Croatia's EU application process for most of 2009 until the two governments reached a deal last September.

Janez Jansa, opposition leader and former prime minister who had denounced deal as bad for Slovenia, said approval of the deal would result in Slovenia losing access to international sea waters.

"This result shows that Slovenia is divided over a question where we should not be divided at all," Jansa said.

The dispute involves a sliver of land on the Istrian peninsula in the northern Adriatic. Slovenia -- squeezed between Italy and Croatia -- has demanded to have direct access to international waters, which could force Croatia to cede some of the sea it sees as its own.

Analysts say the approval will end the 19-year old border dispute and ease relations between the two countries.

[mambo]

Boris,

I would not start celebrating yet..............because due to Greece, Spain, Portugal, Hungary and Italy the Northern European members have become very weary about letting new, completely bankrupt, states into the EU.

This week we have elections in Belgium and Holland, but in both countries ALL politicians are against letting bankrupt countries into the EU, which would mean Croatia may close all the chapters, but due to its bankruptcy (read: unsurmountable debt) it will not receive an OK in the near future and I fully agree with this position.
The EU cannot and should not allow bankrupt and/or corrupt countries in the EU. Letting more of these states in the EU will destabilize the EU and will eventually lead to the downfall of the Union.

So, even though Slovenia may have had a positive referendum, all the signs have turned to red over the last few months.

[crojoe]

51.5% in favor, 48.5 against - I wonder how democratic this referendum was? That seems like a very close call, almost to good to be true, with only 3% difference (if I understand my numbers right).

[3lions]

this has stupidly dragged on for far too long in my humble opinion.

[ray51]

So : in arbitration , are they likely to gain access to all-important sea-routes e.g. from Koper ?
If YES , won't this damage the port of Rijeka's business ?

( On the other hand , IF HR were to be admitted into the EU , then all of the above will be of Nil importance , surely ? )

[Carol]

this man, Igor Ilic, knows what he is talking about!

QUOTE

June 4 (Reuters) - Croatia's goal of completing its European Union accession talks this year looks increasingly uncertain as the toughest negotiation areas have yet to be broached.
The European Commission has indicated those areas, or 'chapters', could be opened before the summer break but it remains uncertain if the two toughest chapters -- judiciary and competition policy -- can be closed in six months.
Zagreb hopes to become an EU member in 2012 if the talks are completed by July 2011 at the latest.
Below is the current status of Croatia's EU negotiations that began in October 2005.

* Croatia has so far opened 30 out of 33 negotiation chapters, or policy areas of the joint EU law, and closed 18.
* Three chapters still unopened are: Foreign, Security and Defence Policy (FSDP); Competition policy; Judiciary and Fundamental Rights. Croatia hopes to open all three of them at an accession conference in late June or July.
* Foreign policy was blocked by EU neighbour Slovenia, which said it first wanted to see good neighbourly relations in place, after a border dispute between the two former Yugoslav republics obstructed Croatia's entry talks for most of 2009.
* The Competition Policy chapter is also likely to be opened after Zagreb kicked off a process that would lead to the sale or restructuring of its loss-making shipyards. Croatia has to cut hefty subsidies to the docks before joining the EU.
* The Judiciary chapter is the toughest as member states are looking at Croatia's fight against corruption and organised crime, as well as its cooperation with the U.N. war crimes tribunal, which has so far been labelled as 'incomplete' by the tribunal's chief prosecutor, Serge Brammertz.
Brammertz said last week Zagreb was generally cooperative on his requests, but he was still seeking some documents he wants for a trial of three Croatian generals.
* Issues that could delay the talks into 2011:
Croatia has stepped up reforms of its slow and inefficient judiciary and corruption-fighting but will have to establish a good track record in that field. Any glitches or delays in the reforms will almost certainly postpone the conclusion of the talks.
Agriculture talks may be difficult because Zagreb has demanded a high number of exemptions. Reforms in the sector have been relatively slow and institutional capacity to become part of the EU's Common Agricultural Policy is lagging.
A considerable delay in opening the remaining three chapters might prompt the government to call early elections, otherwise planned for late 2011, which would almost certainly further slow reforms and the accession talks.
* What is at stake if the accession talks are not concluded within the next 12 months?
Diplomats and local officials say becoming a member in 2012 has financial and economic importance for the Balkan country as Croatia is entitled to draw up to 3.5 billion euros from the EU structural funds in 2012 and 2013. After that the EU will be discussing on a new seven-year financial framework which may be less favourable for Croatia's first years of membership.
Croatia must hold a referendum before signing the EU accession treaty. At the moment, support is just above 50 percent and many citizens are unsure about the immediate benefits of membership. Any major new delay in the talks could turn citizens more negative about the EU.
(Compiled by Igor Ilic, edited by Zoran Radosavljevic and Paul Taylor) Keywords: CROATIA EU/

UNQUOTE

[3lions]

Jun 7, 2010 8:33:50 GMT 1 ray51 said:

So : in arbitration , are they likely to gain access to all-important sea-routes e.g. from Koper ?
If YES , won't this damage the port of Rijeka's business ?

( On the other hand , IF HR were to be admitted into the EU , then all of the above will be of Nil importance , surely ? )

I think I read that this has more to do with fishing rights and how much of that bay each side owns.

[boris]

I find it very odd, why Croatia would not be adtmitted into the EU?

We are an European country, no worse than many other countried in the EU, half of them being bankrupt.

[ray51]

The Bosnians , The Macedonians ( Alexander The Great ? ) , the Montenegrans , the Albanians , the Serbs , the Moldovians...all could claim the same ? IF they cared to...
Albeit , some might think ( quietly ) :
it doesn't make you EUropean where you think you are geographically , but rather where you are in civilisation terms ;
- sadly , since the greedy , corrupt EU has broken all such rules by admitting Bulgaria and Romania into the "club" , none of this makes any sense at all anymore , and what with Ireland , Italy , Portugal , Spain and others being deep quite so in financial faeces , who cares anymore if HR is in or out ?

[3lions]

...yep of course mistakes have been made, and Croatia is facing more stringent tests because of this.

[mambo]

Boris,

There are certain rules with regard to budget deficits, GDP etc. Many Southern countries have not abided by those rules and are now in deep financial problems. Portugal and Spain have now taken measures to lower spending, but no guarantee yet that they will succeed.

Hungary, Romania, Greece and also Croatia, Serbia etc have all lived well beyond their means, with rampant corruption and the result is that these countries are more or less bankrupt.
The other nations of the EU, which have behaved in a good way, who have their spending under control, now need to bail out Greece. Together they have coughed up 110 billion euro and there is an additional fund of 800 billion (although nobody knows where the money should come from).

It is logic that many citizens of the Northern countries had a reaction like: 'What the f***' when they heard about the fact that Greece had consistently lied to the EU.
Rightfully so they are asking themselves: 'Why should we bail out a bunch of criminals ?'
After all, the money has to come from the hard working people of those countries.

It will be extremely difficult for politicians to explain that the local citizens have to bite the bullet, that their salaries will be reduced or that they will even loose their job, while at the same time they would give money (for free) to Greece.
There is no way you can explain that to the people who vote you in office.

Now we have the application of Croatia, a debt laden country (48 billion euro in debt), no industry, subsidized ship building, no real addition to the economical power of the EU (on the contrary I would say, Croatia will become a huge burden for the EU), so very logic that politicians in the North are not willing to bail out Croatia as well.
What they will demand is very simple. They will want to see a sound economic policy, reduction of government waste and spending, complete crack down on corruption and perhaps then Croatia will be allowed.
Just closing the chapters is not going to do it and since I don't see any improvement on corruption and government spending it will take years before they allow Croatia into the EU and euro.
Not a single European will be willing to bail out overspending Croatians, I can guarantee you that.

[ray51]

Dream on , babe !

Alternatively :
the child goes to school , learns Nothing much (as in Soweto , Alexandra etc, ) gets promiscous and drugs-addicted , gets violent and/or AIDS-infected ;
also : unemployed , for life :
then , when there's no hope left , the same child shoots you dead , through your windscreen , whilst trying to hi-jack your pitiful old Toyota ..
yeah : the ( Hero ! ) Nelson Mandela country , all over again !