|
Post by marie on Jun 12, 2011 17:12:05 GMT 1
Yesterday in Split, absolute mayhem, during this parade, why is that, are Croats stupid or else?
"Stone-throwing extremists disrupted a gay pride march in Croatia on Saturday, a day after the Balkan country was given the green light to join the European Union.
At least 100 people were detained and many others were injured after opponents of the march in the coastal town of Split
Also: "Croatian President Ivo Josipovic June 12, 2011
Croatian President Ivo Josipovic has condemned violence at the first gay-rights march in the coastal city of Split. He said the violence has "shown that there are some non-European parts of our society." He insisted that it was "not Croatia's real face." Prime Minister Jadranka Kosor warned that violence and hatred were "something that cannot be tolerated in Croatia." Some 10,000 opponents of the gay-pride parade in Split hurled stones, bottles, bricks, cigarette lighters, and stones at around 200 participants who eventually had to be evacuated in police vehicles. A dozen people were injured, four of them journalists. The violence broke out just a day after the European Commission gave Croatia the green light to complete EU accession talks and become the bloc's next member in July 2013.
|
|
|
Post by crojoe on Jun 12, 2011 18:02:43 GMT 1
While I am not “anti-gay” (as that's their own right to be what they want to be in private), I don't understand why they parade (other then to express to one and all that they are gay). I mean, should heterosexuals have a parade, should eunuchs or celibates have a parade? Maybe married people should have a parade, or singles for that matter? Other then a ring on the finger, a herd of kids in tow most people wouldn't know I was married (since I'm so single minded). I have a few friends who are "gay" but neither I nor they make a fuse about it. I don't joke about it nor do I try to make them “straight”.
There may be millions of reasons why a person chooses to be gay, but I'm ok with it as long as they don't try and push it on me or my kids. Matters of sex and such stuff should be kept to the confines of the bedroom, certain clubs and I think not on the main street of cities. We get enough of it on TV, a good dose each and every day.
To show the funny side of things, I was at my son’s kindergarten and they sung the Aussie song "Kookaburra lives in the old gum tree", anyway, some of you may know that one of the lines in the song says... Kookaburra laugh, gay your life must be. Plenty of people chuckled at that verse. For a none English speaker they may thing the kookaburra is gay, while all along it means be "happy". The old black and while films where full of people singing how “gay" they where.
|
|
|
Post by gary on Jun 12, 2011 21:56:32 GMT 1
Still, I suppose it's an improvement on the first gay pride march in Zagreb a few years ago.
The marchers were attacked by the police!
But, 10,000 opponents in a small place like Split?
Must be a Dalmatian frijar (sp?) thing I suppose......
|
|
|
Post by Madgolfer on Jun 13, 2011 8:24:09 GMT 1
Freedom of speech and the right to parade are basic human rights that should be upheld........within reason.
But as CJ says in his post why do they feel the need to be so "in your face" about it? The organizers and police both knew in advance what the reaction would be, hence the police presence and the police reaction.
When you look at the media photos of police in riot gear charging down the street with batons raised, you get an impression of something in your mind, police brutality etc.
The mindless idiots who went there to protest their opposition to gay rights also have every right to voice their opinion, but as soon as they started getting violent deserved everything they got.
Protest all you want, but get out of order and you will be shown no mercy by the police here, and quite right too IMO!
|
|
skyblue
Junior Member
[M0:0]
Posts: 21
|
Post by skyblue on Jun 15, 2011 7:27:58 GMT 1
While I am not “anti-gay” (as that's their own right to be what they want to be in private), I don't understand why they parade (other then to express to one and all that they are gay). I mean, should heterosexuals have a parade, should eunuchs or celibates have a parade? Maybe married people should have a parade, or singles for that matter? Other then a ring on the finger, a herd of kids in tow most people wouldn't know I was married (since I'm so single minded). I have a few friends who are "gay" but neither I nor they make a fuse about it. I don't joke about it nor do I try to make them “straight”. There may be millions of reasons why a person chooses to be gay, but I'm ok with it as long as they don't try and push it on me or my kids. Matters of sex and such stuff should be kept to the confines of the bedroom, certain clubs and I think not on the main street of cities. We get enough of it on TV, a good dose each and every day. To show the funny side of things, I was at my son’s kindergarten and they sung the Aussie song "Kookaburra lives in the old gum tree", anyway, some of you may know that one of the lines in the song says... Kookaburra laugh, gay your life must be. Plenty of people chuckled at that verse. For a none English speaker they may thing the kookaburra is gay, while all along it means be "happy". The old black and while films where full of people singing how “gay" they where. So you don't understand why we parade?? Perhaps because we get fired at work for our sexual orientation. We get beaten up in the street for minding our own business. We are not allowed to get married. We miss out on inheritance rights. How else are we expected to bring this to everyone's attention and gain equal rights? By staying underground? And another thing - could you PLEASE stop calling homosexuality a choice - no one in their right mind would choose the lifestyle and daily prejudice I have outlined above. After all, you didn't choose to be straight, did you?? Whilst I am not the kind to ever participate in a gay pride march - primarily as I live in a relatively accepting & tolerant country (Australia), if my parents had remained in Croatia, I likely would have joined, as the people there are fearful of the unknown - be it immigrants, the EU or homosexuals, and need to learn to think outside the square, outside the brainwashing that has been passed down for generations in that country for far too long.
|
|
|
Post by crojoe on Jun 15, 2011 8:06:13 GMT 1
While I am not “anti-gay” (as that's their own right to be what they want to be in private), I don't understand why they parade (other then to express to one and all that they are gay). I mean, should heterosexuals have a parade, should eunuchs or celibates have a parade? Maybe married people should have a parade, or singles for that matter? Other then a ring on the finger, a herd of kids in tow most people wouldn't know I was married (since I'm so single minded). I have a few friends who are "gay" but neither I nor they make a fuse about it. I don't joke about it nor do I try to make them “straight”. There may be millions of reasons why a person chooses to be gay, but I'm ok with it as long as they don't try and push it on me or my kids. Matters of sex and such stuff should be kept to the confines of the bedroom, certain clubs and I think not on the main street of cities. We get enough of it on TV, a good dose each and every day. To show the funny side of things, I was at my son’s kindergarten and they sung the Aussie song "Kookaburra lives in the old gum tree", anyway, some of you may know that one of the lines in the song says... Kookaburra laugh, gay your life must be. Plenty of people chuckled at that verse. For a none English speaker they may thing the kookaburra is gay, while all along it means be "happy". The old black and while films where full of people singing how “gay" they where. So you don't understand why we parade?? Perhaps because we get fired at work for our sexual orientation. We get beaten up in the street for minding our own business. We are not allowed to get married. We miss out on inheritance rights. How else are we expected to bring this to everyone's attention and gain equal rights? By staying underground? And another thing - could you PLEASE stop calling homosexuality a choice - no one in their right mind would choose the lifestyle and daily prejudice I have outlined above. After all, you didn't choose to be straight, did you?? Whilst I am not the kind to ever participate in a gay pride march - primarily as I live in a relatively accepting & tolerant country (Australia), if my parents had remained in Croatia, I likely would have joined, as the people there are fearful of the unknown - be it immigrants, the EU or homosexuals, and need to learn to think outside the square, outside the brainwashing that has been passed down for generations in that country for far too long. I expected a reply like the above. It's know as the "poor me" syndrome. Did I choose to be straight, did I choose to have kids, did I choose to work.. yes yes yes. You choose your life, even if it's not a bed of roses. You say you get fired because your "sexual orientation", but then so would I if I flaunted it. If I was to try and hit upon a woman at work, I'd get fired. If my jokes crossed the line into "sexual orientation" and discrimination I'd get fired. It's not like you’re the only sector of society that get fired in life. I agree you want to make a point, but parading on the main street in a town where people are pretty hostile isn't smart. As you live in Australia, I know you live in a country that is most accepting to your way of life. While I agree that there is a great deal of stigma, nationalism, and other forces working against peoples rights (as brainwashing has never actually been scientifically proven), I can understand why people can only go so far in thinking outside the box. Some things seem more natural, while other things just don't fit right (if you know what I mean). Anyway, all I can say is keep it to yourself and we'll get along just fine. Just like I have to keep my sexuality in the "adults" section of life and society (especially out in public), I should expect the same from gays or persons enjoying a life of homosexuality. And sorry to say, but you do choose that life style to some degree, but how it is expresses is governed by the laws of the land. Next time, maybe Split town centre won't be the best place to hold next year’s gay parade. Try Zagreb, seems to be more gay folks about, both in the work place, on the streets and in the media. You'll then have the backing of President Ivo Josipovic at hand.
|
|
|
Post by Kaskader on Jun 15, 2011 8:17:12 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by justapixel on Jun 15, 2011 8:38:45 GMT 1
Nope, I don't think one's sexual orientation is a choice. Subduing it is a choice an can something be a pragmatic, but both unnatural and unfair choice.
I guess the parade in Split was much more a struggle for rights than a celebration or a party.
.
|
|
skyblue
Junior Member
[M0:0]
Posts: 21
|
Post by skyblue on Jun 15, 2011 8:51:50 GMT 1
I think you're right, Kaskader. Some people just refuse to accept that nature often gets it wrong. Amazing aberrations of nature occur in the form of hermaphroditism, autism, blindness, etc. Yet because homosexuality is not always visible to the naked eye, and has an unfortunate religious stigma attached to it, there still exists great intolerance of it. Crojoe - the first gay parade in Sydney in the late 70's was even more hostile than the one in Split a few days ago....look at the acceptance of our Mardi Gras now. Have I made my point? I am disgusted by your condescension - calling this simply 'poor me syndrome'. Imagine being spat on by society for being in a wheelchair - unthinkable, right? Being spat on for a condition you cannot help. I'm not trying to shove this 'lifestyle' as you call it down your throat. I just want you to consider other's feelings prior to making sweeping judgments. Just because you had a few bad experiences with gays in the past, doesn't mean we're all equal. I don't make the same assumption about straights.
|
|
|
Post by crojoe on Jun 15, 2011 11:02:50 GMT 1
I think you're right, Kaskader. Some people just refuse to accept that nature often gets it wrong. Amazing aberrations of nature occur in the form of hermaphroditism, autism, blindness, etc. Yet because homosexuality is not always visible to the naked eye, and has an unfortunate religious stigma attached to it, there still exists great intolerance of it. Crojoe - the first gay parade in Sydney in the late 70's was even more hostile than the one in Split a few days ago....look at the acceptance of our Mardi Gras now. Have I made my point? I am disgusted by your condescension - calling this simply 'poor me syndrome'. Imagine being spat on by society for being in a wheelchair - unthinkable, right? Being spat on for a condition you cannot help. I'm not trying to shove this 'lifestyle' as you call it down your throat. I just want you to consider other's feelings prior to making sweeping judgments. Just because you had a few bad experiences with gays in the past, doesn't mean we're all equal. I don't make the same assumption about straights. Ok, whatever! You can never disagree with a gay, a Jew, a black person or anyone today. We all have to be politically correct. Why is it that you've been spat on and I haven't? What are you doing to antagonise those around you? I have never been fired from a job, but you say you have. Why? What the back ground? I know for a fact that if they fired you in Australia all because they thought or knew you where gay then the likelihood of them getting away with it is slim. Getting fired because one is a lousy worker, not doing their job is another thing. Anyway, I toss no stones, raise no fist in anger at gays, but neither do I agree with everything you say or do. Other then that, have a gay ol time, and say hello to the Flint Stones for me.
|
|
|
Post by 3lions on Jun 15, 2011 11:15:42 GMT 1
I agree with the Marie's first post. Why would someone throw stone's at a gay parade? The classic answer would be that they have a problem with their own sexuality.
|
|
skyblue
Junior Member
[M0:0]
Posts: 21
|
Post by skyblue on Jun 15, 2011 12:11:25 GMT 1
I think you're right, Kaskader. Some people just refuse to accept that nature often gets it wrong. Amazing aberrations of nature occur in the form of hermaphroditism, autism, blindness, etc. Yet because homosexuality is not always visible to the naked eye, and has an unfortunate religious stigma attached to it, there still exists great intolerance of it. Crojoe - the first gay parade in Sydney in the late 70's was even more hostile than the one in Split a few days ago....look at the acceptance of our Mardi Gras now. Have I made my point? I am disgusted by your condescension - calling this simply 'poor me syndrome'. Imagine being spat on by society for being in a wheelchair - unthinkable, right? Being spat on for a condition you cannot help. I'm not trying to shove this 'lifestyle' as you call it down your throat. I just want you to consider other's feelings prior to making sweeping judgments. Just because you had a few bad experiences with gays in the past, doesn't mean we're all equal. I don't make the same assumption about straights. Ok, whatever! You can never disagree with a gay, a Jew, a black person or anyone today. We all have to be politically correct. Why is it that you've been spat on and I haven't? What are you doing to antagonise those around you? I have never been fired from a job, but you say you have. Why? What the back ground? I know for a fact that if they fired you in Australia all because they thought or knew you where gay then the likelihood of them getting away with it is slim. Getting fired because one is a lousy worker, not doing their job is another thing. Anyway, I toss no stones, raise no fist in anger at gays, but neither do I agree with everything you say or do. Other then that, have a gay ol time, and say hello to the Flint Stones for me. You're not even reading my post correctly. I personally have not been spat on, nor have ever been fired from any job. This post is about the state of affairs for gays in Croatia. I am using the collective 'we' when referring to gays, got it?? It is a fact that in many Eastern European countries, gays (whether obvious or not) are often fired from their jobs. They are almost never open about their sexuality, and subsequently they would very seldom come on to members of the same sex in the workplace (as you ignorantly suggested previously), for fear of being sacked. They are fired as the culture in Eastern Europe is to have an intimate knowledge of each worker's private life, hence a worker's sexuality can often be revealed if the gay worker is brave enough. You were asking me these questions to yet again prove to yourself that a gay person provokes injustices towards themselves via their behaviour, as you've been trying to do throughout this entire post
|
|
|
Post by justapixel on Jun 15, 2011 12:59:18 GMT 1
I don't think being fired from a job is what concerns homosexuals here - there are no jobs in Croatia. ;D
Joking aside, I don't recall ever hearing of someone being fired from his job because of his sexual orientation. Worker protection jobs here are very strict and can be used by such an employee very effectively, while media would be more than happy to come across such a story. On previous workplaces I had a few gay coworkers, usually they were shy about their orientation, but never mistreated or avoided. OTOH, there were lots of gay jokes and gay allusions floating around, but never targeted at them and usually avoided in their vicinity.
What gays in Croatia are actually scared of is physical violence combined with the fact that the state is unable to protect them, and in many cases (as in Split and other primitive areas) also unwilling.
.
|
|
|
Post by crojoe on Jun 15, 2011 13:43:50 GMT 1
Ok, whatever! You can never disagree with a gay, a Jew, a black person or anyone today. We all have to be politically correct. Why is it that you've been spat on and I haven't? What are you doing to antagonise those around you? I have never been fired from a job, but you say you have. Why? What the back ground? I know for a fact that if they fired you in Australia all because they thought or knew you where gay then the likelihood of them getting away with it is slim. Getting fired because one is a lousy worker, not doing their job is another thing. Anyway, I toss no stones, raise no fist in anger at gays, but neither do I agree with everything you say or do. Other then that, have a gay ol time, and say hello to the Flint Stones for me. You're not even reading my post correctly. I personally have not been spat on, nor have ever been fired from any job. This post is about the state of affairs for gays in Croatia. I am using the collective 'we' when referring to gays, got it?? It is a fact that in many Eastern European countries, gays (whether obvious or not) are often fired from their jobs. They are almost never open about their sexuality, and subsequently they would very seldom come on to members of the same sex in the workplace (as you ignorantly suggested previously), for fear of being sacked. They are fired as the culture in Eastern Europe is to have an intimate knowledge of each worker's private life, hence a worker's sexuality can often be revealed if the gay worker is brave enough. You were asking me these questions to yet again prove to yourself that a gay person provokes injustices towards themselves via their behaviour, as you've been trying to do throughout this entire post Ok, what’s the next topic of discussion about Croatia? This Aussie (or is the person a Croatian) who knows all or has lived and worked in Croatia knows all about Gay rights and their plight in this country and Eastern Europe out matches me. So, since I know nothing, am not gay I'll just chit chat and shoot the breeze about other topics on matters I know about, such as living in Croatia (which I do and have for several years). By the way, let me know if you plan to visit Croatia and I'll have some sticks and stones available for people to toss at you upon arrival. Otherwise, chill out, have a fosters, chuck a lump of meat on the barbeque (unless your a vegetarian), watch some Aussie football and be gay (happy).
|
|
|
Post by 3lions on Jun 15, 2011 13:59:46 GMT 1
Crojoe I think you started it ;D, as you "inferred" that those holding the parade were somehow promoting being gay and forcing it on other people, whereas in fact what skyblue is saying is that they need to hold such parades in order to be pro-active as they have less rights in the first place. My personal experience is that Croaita is a very illiberal place with no credible record in defending human rights whatsoever. Hence my support for them joining the EU so that people can at least get some backing in this difficult area.[
|
|