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Post by crojoe on May 5, 2012 1:21:50 GMT 1
Any of you guys ever have an organisation or company threaten to take you to court because of what you wrote about them on a private internet forum?
There is this charitable organisation that I once checked out about volunteering to help and got hammered by the instructor, so much so he went on to call me a gay and stupid and very strange stuff (came in from their head office abroad). Anyway, I just let it go and left the meeting with zero desire to help them in any shape or form. Recently a forum member on this site postered an ad of theirs on the forum I visit and I decided to make a comment (you have to login, so the forum is not open to the general public).
So, I tell my story in one paragraph. Kind of give a heads up to others that its not all about glossy times and reach deep into your pockets to support them.
Anyway, I just got a letter from their lawyer threatening me with a law suit if I ever say anything again negative about this organisation. Everything I said was my own experience and what I was told when attending this meeting. It was not hearsay or untrue as the lawyer tried to convey in his "warning" letter. In short he tried to call me a liar.
Whenever I see an organisation reacts like this I wonder what they have to hide. It's the hit dog that howls. Also, my post was copied and then sent to him from the site (he was third party). Seems a bit of blast against freedom of speech and disregard to my privacy on the site. I'm not gearing towards taking the issue to court even though I have about 5 lawyer friends, but I almost feel like such a threat should warrant a reply.
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Post by kesterj on May 5, 2012 8:38:36 GMT 1
"Any of you guys ever have an organisation or company threaten to take you to court because of what you wrote about them on a private internet forum?" Not personally, but i've heard of such cases. "There is this charitable organisation that I once checked out about volunteering to help and got hammered by the instructor, so much so he went on to call me a gay and stupid and very strange stuff (came in from their head office abroad). Anyway, I just let it go and left the meeting with zero desire to help them in any shape or form." I'm surprised they have any volunteers if that's their regular approach, but it takes all sorts......  "It was not hearsay or untrue......" You would say that, wouldn't you? Got proof? Unfortunately for you, if it ever comes to the crunch, that is for the court to decide. And that's a whole different KoF. "...as the lawyer tried to convey in his letter." Surprised? I thought you said you had lawyer friends? "In short he tried to call me a liar." Yup, sure thing! except you are a bit sloppy with words, Crojoe. From what you write, he has indeed called you a liar. (not tried) "Whenever I see an organisation reacts like this I wonder what they have to hide...." Try saying that to the judge. Possibly good psyhchology, but bad defence. Doubt it would be admissable. "Seems a bit of blast against freedom of speech and disregard to my privacy on the site." Do you ever TALK to your lawyer friends? ITYWF most lawyers have no interest in moral rights, let alone justice. Their interest is defending clients, winning cases and making money. "I'm not gearing towards taking the issue to court even though I have about 5 lawyer friends, but I almost feel like such a threat should warrant a reply." Perhaps it should. I'd say leave it. Perhaps you should ask your lawyer friends. Is your post still up on the web? If so, and you can arrange it, you might be wise to take it down. kesterj |
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Post by Ribaric on May 5, 2012 8:55:35 GMT 1
I'd do the complete opposite. I am a mouthy so 'n so and I do let my emotive responses get out of hand from time to time so, yes, I have a few experiences of letters from posh lawyers plus the odd thinly veiled threat.
My experience is that this is all bluster and people are accustomed to bullying others and getting away with it. Fight your corner with the clear threat that you are probably more dangerous to them than they are to you - would be my advice. However, you know yourself and if you don't want to get involved in a ruck then follow Kes's advice.
MG has much experience in this regard, he'd be worth listening to.
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Post by crojoe on May 5, 2012 9:44:27 GMT 1
"Any of you guys ever have an organisation or company threaten to take you to court because of what you wrote about them on a private internet forum?" Not personally, but i've heard of such cases. "There is this charitable organisation that I once checked out about volunteering to help and got hammered by the instructor, so much so he went on to call me a gay and stupid and very strange stuff (came in from their head office abroad). Anyway, I just let it go and left the meeting with zero desire to help them in any shape or form." I'm surprised they have any volunteers if that's their regular approach, but it takes all sorts...... "It was not hearsay or untrue......" You would say that, wouldn't you? Got proof? Unfortunately for you, if it ever comes to the crunch, that is for the court to decide. And that's a whole different KoF. "...as the lawyer tried to convey in his letter." Surprised? I thought you said you had lawyer friends? "In short he tried to call me a liar." Yup, sure thing! except you are a bit sloppy with words, Crojoe. From what you write, he has indeed called you a liar. (not tried) "Whenever I see an organisation reacts like this I wonder what they have to hide...." Try saying that to the judge. Possibly good psyhchology, but bad defence. Doubt it would be admissable. "Seems a bit of blast against freedom of speech and disregard to my privacy on the site." Do you ever TALK to your lawyer friends? ITYWF most lawyers have no interest in moral rights, let alone justice. Their interest is defending clients, winning cases and making money. "I'm not gearing towards taking the issue to court even though I have about 5 lawyer friends, but I almost feel like such a threat should warrant a reply." Perhaps it should. I'd say leave it. Perhaps you should ask your lawyer friends. Is your post still up on the web? If so, and you can arrange it, you might be wise to take it down. kesterj This is the problem in such situations. It is my word against theirs. Will just have a lawyer respond just to give it a bit more weight and pick his letter apart in legal terms. Seems this is the only language lawyers understand since they twist your words and the law to their advantage. |
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Post by crojoe on May 5, 2012 10:21:22 GMT 1
I'd do the complete opposite. I am a mouthy so 'n so and I do let my emotive responses get out of hand from time to time so, yes, I have a few experiences of letters from posh lawyers plus the odd thinly veiled threat. My experience is that this is all bluster and people are accustomed to bullying others and getting away with it. Fight your corner with the clear threat that you are probably more dangerous to them than they are to you - would be my advice. However, you know yourself and if you don't want to get involved in a ruck then follow Kes's advice. MG has much experience in this regard, he'd be worth listening to. Yea, you are very right! I would be more a threat to them then them to me. It sure would make for a juicy news story at the height of their promotion. Always easier for the lone guy to take down the nosy organisation (which I think is their worry), but then 80% of their work is good so who wants to make people suffer? I started out being interested in volunteering in their cause. Now, they have the complete opposite. A PM or even a call to smooth over the ruffled feathers would have been suffice, but I guess as the proverb says, it's easier to take a walled city then win back a former friend. |
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Post by gmh on May 6, 2012 18:28:41 GMT 1
I find it hard to give advice without knowing what organisation you refer to, and what kind of things you said about them.
If it's a Croatian organisation, I'd say you'd have very little chance as a foreigner to win a court battle against them.
Why do I say this ?
Because the court system here is extremely bias !! I know this through personal experience. I was convicted of a crime that I never committed, and it wasn't just my word against there's. I had 5 foreign witnesses, and yet the court refused to accept their legal written statements and also refused to call those witnesses in person to the court to testify in person. The whole process took 4 years ! At the end of it, I have to serve 2 years probation for being a victim !!! Not to mention lawyer and court costs to pay !!
Forget it !
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Post by Ribaric on May 6, 2012 19:35:38 GMT 1
I know what you told me about your case gmh and, now that you've told us the outcome, I'd just leave. Sorry to hear this.
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Post by crojoe on May 7, 2012 8:49:28 GMT 1
I know what you told me about your case gmh and, now that you've told us the outcome, I'd just leave. Sorry to hear this. Sorry to hear about the outcome to your story but a good warning to me. With your advice and others I will just let it slide (live to fight another day). The reason I do not mention this nosy organisation by name is because of the letter, even if it is just an empty threat. Better to be on the safe side. At least I know they do not practice what they preach. I am not only of the same opinion about them but now public enemy number ONE. Ha! I guess at the time I should have filed a case against the founder for his slander, verbal abuse & discrimination. We live and learn and maybe a bit to forgiving. The problem is this lawyer firm is their sponsor and has direct invested interests. They are not really a third party. Anyway, hope your case did not put a negative blotch on your life. |
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Post by Madgolfer on May 7, 2012 12:30:31 GMT 1
Obviously depending on what you actually said about them CJ and how genuinely strong was their reply I would caution against getting to deeply into this.
Litigation should always be considered as a last resort and defending yourself as a foreigner here in HR even more so.
I have never been one to hide from confrontation or shirking from defending a position, but it can be a very costly and time consuming business and not a route I would consider myself here in Cro at the moment.
After July 2013 maybe but at the moment def not.
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Post by crojoe on May 7, 2012 13:57:26 GMT 1
Obviously depending on what you actually said about them CJ and how genuinely strong was their reply I would caution against getting to deeply into this. Litigation should always be considered as a last resort and defending yourself as a foreigner here in HR even more so. I have never been one to hide from confrontation or shirking from defending a position, but it can be a very costly and time consuming business and not a route I would consider myself here in Cro at the moment. After July 2013 maybe but at the moment def not. Yes, thought the same thing. Remember hearing about a young Croat in Split I think that criticized some government guy online and he got sued. Never heard the outcome, but guess with money, power and who you know, you can do just about anything you want in Croatia. That is of course if you where not caught red handed with your hand in the cookie jar or designated as the fall guy. |
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Post by kesterj on May 7, 2012 15:43:49 GMT 1
"This is the problem in such situations. It is my word against theirs. Will just have a lawyer respond just to give it a bit more weight and pick his letter apart in legal terms. Seems this is the only language lawyers understand since they twist your words and the law to their advantage." Crojoe, I do not mean to offend, but I'm afraid you sound awfully ingnorant of how the law, works, even if you have friends as lawyers. This, at least, is how the law of libel works in "reasonable" places with courts, as in England/Wales. For a start, nobody gets involved with libel cases where possible to settle beforehand, unless they have awfully big pockets. Second - and this applies to English law - you write; "This is the problem in such situations. It is my word against theirs." If this is the case, you have lost before you start. If I write publicly (say) Crojoe is a thief, in a position where Crojoe can be identified, then without proof THAT IS ALREADY (POTENTIALLY) LIBELLOUS. So if you have written XYZ organisation is corrupt, or I think MR ABC of XYZ organisation is corrupt - you have libelled him unless you can prove it. It is your responsibility to have proof, and if you say "this is what he told me on the phone," that will not stand up in a court of law. The only way you could get that to stick is if you have credible witnesses who testify they heard this, or they experienced similar phone calls. And no, your wife or girlfriend will not do. But that is in England - where you might have a chance - and even then, as someone who has fought numerous cases told me, it's a lottery. As someone else has said here, your chances of winning in an E European court are far more of at risk, most particularly if fighitng a local. This is one reason why Croatia (as well as the pack of other EE countries) should not be allowed in the EU - their courts are a disgrace. I would not want to be involved in a court case in a "serious" country like the UK, Gemany or the US, but far less would I wish to get involved in EE - where for the most part if you are fighting somone with money, influence/local connections, you can forget it. you are dead. Leave it alone and start concentrating on next year's premier league predictions kesterj |
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Post by crojoe on May 7, 2012 19:02:11 GMT 1
"This is the problem in such situations. It is my word against theirs. Will just have a lawyer respond just to give it a bit more weight and pick his letter apart in legal terms. Seems this is the only language lawyers understand since they twist your words and the law to their advantage." Crojoe, I do not mean to offend, but I'm afraid you sound awfully ingnorant of how the law, works, even if you have friends as lawyers. This, at least, is how the law of libel works in "reasonable" places with courts, as in England/Wales. For a start, nobody gets involved with libel cases where possible to settle beforehand, unless they have awfully big pockets. Second - and this applies to English law - you write; "This is the problem in such situations. It is my word against theirs." If this is the case, you have lost before you start. If I write publicly (say) Crojoe is a thief, in a position where Crojoe can be identified, then without proof THAT IS ALREADY (POTENTIALLY) LIBELLOUS. So if you have written XYZ organisation is corrupt, or I think MR ABC of XYZ organisation is corrupt - you have libelled him unless you can prove it. It is your responsibility to have proof, and if you say "this is what he told me on the phone," that will not stand up in a court of law. The only way you could get that to stick is if you have credible witnesses who testify they heard this, or they experienced similar phone calls. And no, your wife or girlfriend will not do. But that is in England - where you might have a chance - and even then, as someone who has fought numerous cases told me, it's a lottery. As someone else has said here, your chances of winning in an E European court are far more of at risk, most particularly if fighitng a local. This is one reason why Croatia (as well as the pack of other EE countries) should not be allowed in the EU - their courts are a disgrace. I would not want to be involved in a court case in a "serious" country like the UK, Gemany or the US, but far less would I wish to get involved in EE - where for the most part if you are fighting somone with money, influence/local connections, you can forget it. you are dead. Leave it alone and start concentrating on next year's premier league predictions kesterj TX! Well, if I wasn't "ignorant" of the law then I wouldn't be asking and I would most likely have sent a rebuttal, spent some money and gotten a lawyer involved. This is the first time I have ever received such a letter, and it's not even business related, just from a comment made on a password protected site. Some cheesy idiotic person passed it on (so much for freedom of speech or a little jive at an organisation). It's amazing we're not all in prison or being sued by our many comments about governments, people’s actions and laws. But hey, who am I, just you’re normal jo with no law degrees and not enough money in my slush fund to waste on lawyers fees. Anyway, just so you know my "lawyer" friends have advised me to just let sleeping dogs lay, just a waste of time and full of hot air of intimidation. So, it’s off to the new flat screen TV to watch whatever moves on it. Got a big choice between Croatian, English, German, Italian, Serbian, Bosnian and some other weird and strange languages… oh yea..Klingon. |
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Post by kesterj on May 12, 2012 8:40:25 GMT 1
Sorry, Crojoe, perhaps I should have written 'unaware'.
Anyway, I'm glad your frieds have told you to drop it........if you can go through life without recourse to the courts in any country you are likely to add two years to your life span, i'd suggest.
Kesterj
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Post by crojoe on May 12, 2012 9:21:05 GMT 1
Sorry, Crojoe, perhaps I should have written 'unaware'. Anyway, I'm glad your frieds have told you to drop it........if you can go through life without recourse to the courts in any country you are likely to add two years to your life span, i'd suggest. Kesterj Yea, always appreciate sound advice and the "sleep on it" method. I think I have aged a lot quicker in Croatia recently, although that could be down to me just getting older and just a natural phenomenon. But, so many things here are not natural, more man made, pure stupidity and confusion. I thought Croatia was nothing more then a holiday destination, not a care in the world type place, relax, no stress. Looks can be deceiving. Ha! |
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