croam
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Post by croam on Apr 8, 2005 16:59:36 GMT 1
yeah with a much higher succes ratio than the other way around. i think more people don't care where your from here. i'm a first generation american and i rarely meet 1st generation americans. alot are 3rd generation. Depends where in America also. America is a huge country. Its hard to imagine if you've never been here. Croats come here and marvel at the size of the roads and highways. Its a vast country...pockets of acceptance...lots of ignorence...well, thats everywhere i guess. croatia is a young country and was isolated.
how would they accept me in croatia? amerikanac...even our friends call us "nasi amerikanci" our americans. its friendly..but i'm sure there would be jealous and pissed off people. but that could happen anywhere.
no hard feelings dawn!
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Dawn
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Post by Dawn on Apr 8, 2005 17:09:05 GMT 1
No hard feelings Croam! The Croatian young people we have met are warm, caring, and ready to explore! The best part of being American is that there are so many choices here! Hopefully Croatia will grow into the same but it may take a while! Bye-Dawn
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 8, 2005 20:14:45 GMT 1
your absolutely right about the young people being much more open minded. thats true everywhere. we're waiting for alot of the old hawks in the US to DIE so that my generation can take over... bwahahahahahahhahaha. nothing can stop us now!
just kidding. i hope my generation makes better choices as it comes into power.
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Post by racism on Apr 8, 2005 23:08:06 GMT 1
Look Croam.
You don't live in Croatia. You have maybe vacationed there a couple of times.
Barb Jere lives there and you don't believe what he is saying.
There is just as much racism in American as Croatia. If you don't believe me just ask a black person that lives in the south. There are still black & white area's. Whites don't go into black area's and blacks don't go into white area's. I guess you don't think that is racism?
I know Croatia does not have a large black population but they are there. Plenty of women go with the few black guys that live there. I know because I have a friend that dated a black guy in Cro. Her parents were not happy about it but they did not forbid her what bothered them more than the color was the fact that he was not catholic... not that he was black. They feared if their daughter got married their grandchildren might not be raised catholic.
What you are saying Croam & Irac is that all Croatians are RACIST that is just not true. If you start falling for those stupid racist thoughts than you probably fall for alot of other stupid theories like all Irish men are drunks and all black men have large features, all Croatian women are beautiful, jews have big noses.
Don't be a fool and fall for these stupid racist theories NOT ALL CROATIANS ARE RACIST.... I am Croatian I am not racist, BARB J is Croatian he is not racist. The majority of my family and friends are Croatian and they are not racist.
I find your attitudes to be racist to Croatians you don't give anyone a chance, you have deemed them all racist.
I have lived in Croatia being an American, I have lived in America being a Croatian believe me I was more welcome in Croatia than in America. I have been made fun of in America because of my accent. I have even had people say nasty things to me thinking I did not understand English. I have found more racism and hate in America than I have ever found in Croatia. Croatians are more curious where I am from when they hear my Croatian is a bit different.
Ooooh and one other thing. While in America my mother was beaten by a black women and as my mother was being beaten by the black women she was yelling at my mother "you old white bi*tch" and kicking her on the ground. Luckily a man came to her rescue or she probably would have killed my mother. The reason for this attack my mother was driving to slowly and was white. So don't tell me about racism.
The world is full of it.
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Post by racism on Apr 8, 2005 23:29:36 GMT 1
racism, you seem to get the wrong idea with it. In your post you sum up the prejudice perfectly then perpetuate it with your over elaborate description. Furthermore, why in Croatia do people constantly deflect from problems here. They will always say "Oh, it's far worse in Serbia, Bosnia, etc etc". The levels of racism in Croatia go far beyond colour, and instead of racism it should really be labelled stupidity or ignorance. Next time you visit Croatia, and especially in Dalmatia, ask some questions about the feeling on Bosnian settlers, and you might be unpleasantly surprised to hear the words "animals", "pigs" etc used in conjunction with them. Instead of shifting blame elsewhere Croatians need to start fixing their attitudes at home, because in the next 5-10 years there's going to be a heck of a lot more different peoples landing in! Actually Irac you have it quite wrong. I did not say I hated the black man. I just assumed because of his color that he was not from Croatia. Just as you would assume if you saw an asian man, you might assume he was on vacation in Croatia. Since there is not alot of diversity in race in Croatia. I thought the man was on vacation. When actually he was working in Split and was born there. That does not make me a racist. I was not deflecting the problems Croatia has. You are blowing it up. My thoughts are Croatia does not have a big problem with racism like alot of other Countries. What racism we do have I hope with time and education people will get better. You also mention dalmats and bosn... what about Irish and how you hate the people from the north. I don't think that you are all that different than the people you are talking about. I have seen posts by you in other threads that made comments about people from the north. You don't think that is racist? Again to reiterate; Croatia does have racism but it is not a huge problem like you are describing. I hope with time and education those few idiots that are racist will change.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 8, 2005 23:36:37 GMT 1
did you even think about that before you posted it or are you looking for enemies? Nowhere did i say Croatians are racist. If you read my posts you wouldn't have written that post. I never said croatians were racist. Scroll up to the original question. I doubt you were getting that on a daily basis. Where in the US? Last summer i looked like a tourist and got alot of on a regular basis because i was one letter off. just attitude...but thats diffferent than racism. the original question was how he would be welcomed AS A MEMBER OF THE FAMILY. I was just saying the realistic chances. You want to paint it black or white. I don't think croatians are any more racist than any other nation PER CAPITA. Christ i dont even know why im explaining myself. What other names do you post under racism. or do you just read one post and then unleash your criticism. I was just pointing out the likelihood. if you read my other two posts above i think you can figure out that i understand that racism is everywhere. I never attacked croatians or labeled them, BUT YOU DID. You labeled Americans as being more racist than croatians...jesus...my dad can beat up your dad...blah blah blah.... learn to read and think and then repost after you figured out what everyone else has from reading the same thing. Your playing the victim card. Croatia is awesome as are the people and the culture. Its a way of life over there...its different and more natural. Croatia is opening itself to the world...slowly but surely. Sadly she was the victim of War and the reconstruction has been slow and not enough help has been given to carry out the transition to a market economy. Your the one making generalizations...no one's attacking croatia and most of this carries over to the US and abroad.
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Post by racism on Apr 8, 2005 23:49:49 GMT 1
barbra jare i think your living in a disney universe... I'm not saying its right but the chances of a Croatian girl's parents accepting a black dude into their family is not very likely. Nothing is impossible but if i get attitude when i go there because I have a dialect and speak at least 95% without a mistake and make only minor ones, what do you think they would think about a black american who doesn't speak at all? The Xenophobia in Croatia is immense. It is also one of the most ethnically and racially pure countries in Europe. Do you live in Orlando in Disney World?? Have they added a Republic of Hrvatska at Epcot centre where they have all of the other countries? If they do then it must be heaven on earth! ;D Barb I used to be an idealist too. Now im a realist/optimist. Wrap your mind around that one for awhile. YOUR WORDS CROAM. I think what you are saying in this sentence that the black guy has a chance in hell before being accepted by a Croatian family. You don't consider that racist. You just told Barb that he must be in disney world and the black dudes chances are unlikely. What are you saying that families won't accept blacks but that does not make them racist? You don't make sense.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 9, 2005 0:49:48 GMT 1
no its not racist if its true. and if it weren't true it wouldn't be racist it would be false.
Hopefully the dude from Atlanta will come back on here...read this...and tell you how wrong you are calling me a racist. Do you disagree that croatia is the most racially pure country in Europe? If it is or isn't doesn't change how i feel about it. You never heard me laying blame on the people or even the government for that matter. Just like its no one's fault there isn't a huge population of croats grilling chevaps in Africa. Your killing the messenger. I think you are misunderstanding what was said here. Maybe someone else reading can help me explain it to you. I don't know how else to say what I've already said. Again, i never laid blame on anyone...or called anyone racist. I'm not being mean to you or Barba Jere after you at least called me a racist. But i'm not going to keep defending this for days. If you really wanted to communicate with me you would think about all of my posts under this thread collectively and think before you respond and accuse me of something as bad as being racist, or accusing me of spouting against croatians, or your other weak arguments. No offense brate. I don't know why your freaking out on me. I don't know why your READING INTO things i said and then labeling them incorrectly. Have some rakija and chill out and then get back to me. I'm prescribing the same for myself this evening. Laku Noc.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 9, 2005 0:55:31 GMT 1
"What are you saying that families won't accept blacks but that does not make them racist?
You don't make sense."
...your words.
I never said all families won't accept blacks. I said it wasn't as likely as the US...it was a generalization...i also told him to try it out and see for himself.
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Post by divttp on Apr 9, 2005 1:38:52 GMT 1
i agree with croam. most croatian families would not be open to a black person, just of the little exposure they have had to different diversities. croam stated waht he had observed in croatia, but he did not say that he agreed with how it is. this doesn't make him racist
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 9, 2005 2:51:55 GMT 1
EXACTLY!!! Thank you Dejan! ;D
I always put "i dont agree with it but thats the way it is" on several of my postings...especially in regards to sensitive issues.
Peace
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Post by racism on Apr 9, 2005 3:17:39 GMT 1
Croam & Dejan
Tell me do you live in Croatia. Are you giving your opinions on what you have seen from Croatian Americans or actual Croatians. I would like to know how much time you have had with the croatian people. Have you lived in Croatia, it sounds like you are basing your opinions on your own experiences of maybe your family and friends.
I have lived in Croatia. Barba J lives in Croatia. You are trying to tell people who have experienced living in Croatia about something you have had no experience doing.
Can you give me facts about blacks you know in Croatia. I can. The black guys I know are getting plenty of action. The black girl I know always has a date.
So your notion that the majority of croatian families will not accept blacks is not founded this is just your opinion not fact.
The small amount of blacks that are discriminated against or beaten up in Zagreb have been targets of a small minority of skin heads.
Another weird thing is Croatian Americans tend to be more racist than Croatian in Croatia. I don't know why? Maybe when they get to America they are exposed to racism and then adopt that attitude.
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Post by racism on Apr 9, 2005 3:40:06 GMT 1
The Xenophobia in Croatia is immense. It is also one of the most ethnically and racially pure countries in Europe. . When you state one thing then say another you are going in circles. You say xenophobia in Croatia is immense. You believe that to be true but again that is only your opinion not a fact. I am not reading into what you are writing, I am reading what you are writing and taking it for face value. Also I wanted to correct you on your thoughts about racial purity. Croatia IS NOT the most pure of the balkans. These countries are ethically more pure than Croatia: Slovenia Greece Turkey Bulgaria Romania Hungary Albania and Kosovo if it was a country. On the other hand. Serbia and Bosnia ARE LESS ethically pure than Croatia.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 9, 2005 8:05:15 GMT 1
"Croam & Dejan
Tell me do you live in Croatia. Are you giving your opinions on what you have seen from Croatian Americans or actual Croatians. I would like to know how much time you have had with the croatian people. Have you lived in Croatia, it sounds like you are basing your opinions on your own experiences of maybe your family and friends.
I have lived in Croatia. Barba J lives in Croatia. You are trying to tell people who have experienced living in Croatia about something you have had no experience doing.
Can you give me facts about blacks you know in Croatia. I can. The black guys I know are getting plenty of action. The black girl I know always has a date.
So your notion that the majority of croatian families will not accept blacks is not founded this is just your opinion not fact.
The small amount of blacks that are discriminated against or beaten up in Zagreb have been targets of a small minority of skin heads.
Another weird thing is Croatian Americans tend to be more racist than Croatian in Croatia. I don't know why? Maybe when they get to America they are exposed to racism and then adopt that attitude."
OK...I stand corrected on the ethnic purity of croatia. Nobody is talking about blacks being beaten in croatia. The black gentleman from Atlanta was wondering if he would be accepted into a FAMILY. Is your idea of "getting plenty of action" or dating the same as marriage? I also agree with you that for some unknown reason the croats in america seem more nationalistic and racist than those in croatia, but thats another subject. Just because we dont live in croatia doesn't mean we can't make generalizations of what is accepted in croatian culture and the current demographics. With these two ideas in mind...demographics and croatian culture, it is pretty fair to say his chances are not great to find acceptance. I dont live in Africa and i've never been there. Does that mean that I can't say there's a place called Africa? How could i know? I've never been there. And the problem with the victim role players on this site...and in life...is that you drag out issues which aren't even that big into three page back and forth arguments which make your country look alot worse when people read this stuff. Like some people who would defend Ustase for example or deflect blame by bringing up what was done to the croats. This then escalates into rivaling opinions and arguments which turn into ten pages and then people who would have never even heard of the Ustase happen upon a croat who is defending them and those attacking him for doing so. The end result: it makes croatia look bad. Just like the guy from Atlanta is probably wondering why he ever asked. Oh, and you are also basing your opinions on your experiences and that of your family and friends so unless your some big time Velikanac over there...then you don't know hundreds more people than me, and therefore my opinion is almost as valid as yours...even though I'm not there. I know people who lived there...who do live there...and MOST IMPORTANTLY..I'm basing my opinion on sociological and demographic information. Your basing your opinion on the openminded people you know...which don't necessarily represent the majority. Then we could digress on all the varying levels of discrimination and levels of acceptance. Your arguing things that would take twenty pages to argue(at least) and comprise a very complex discussion that you try to simplify by saying "i know many parents who wouldn't care if their daughter brought home a black guy". I dunno... I admit I'm not the authority on this but I think that I'm not alone in my opinion...and I hope that I'm wrong...but you seem like your looking for a fight.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 9, 2005 8:07:44 GMT 1
oh and if you want to discuss talking about things that we have experienced than what the hell are you talking about blacks in croatia?? They barely exist. So you've proven yourself wrong by talking about something you don't know. You act as if interracial marriage in croatia is commonplace. Your giving the guy a false picture.
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