London estate agent listing Croatian property

[Culchie]

Ah, OK.

Still ...£1K

[Ribaric]

Reknown for my slow wit and dull intellect, let me get this right.....

As a prospective buyer, I am required to pay an agent a wedge of money in order to demonstrate I'm not a time waster? Is that right?

If so, why can I not just sign a contract that says I must pay the agreed agency fee should I buy any property introduced to me by that agency?

[alsdoubles]

Hey what. What a lot of words....But basically, if you wanna buy in Croatia you go there, rent for a year. It wont cost you more than a grand, plus the beer and wine. (A lot). And see for yourself.
You need NO-ONE to kick start your own brain. Unless, of course you haven't got one...A brain, that is.
There are a millilion properties available for sale at peanuts money and they're all cheap. So far. End of story. They wont be so for ever.
Anyone who doesn't believe that give me like-for-like UK money for my 'highly desirable' concrete bunker by the sea. And, anyone who asks for money up front, before getting out of bed. Well, I suggest you reply to the Nigerian con artists (no disrespect to genuine Nigerian human beings of course), and send them money and lose it. And then moan loudly about it. Because, well, that's just about the best you can do.
Croatia.....Loads opportunities. IF you can see them. Absolutely loads.
I too emailed the company...in the original posting. They emailed me back..."Ring me" I suggested, eff off, you want to earn from me, you ring me. They haven't.
IF Croatian properties were easy to sell by UK estate agents there would be a thousand listed on a search engine. There are not. Once again....this situation will not last forever. It will change. They will ALL jump on the same horse, eventually.

[bheywood]

Sorry all - I've been away for 2 weeks and didn't know about Emma's post, hence my lack of response. Please see below for the email I sent personally to the Ellis Property Partnership last month on this subject, one I thought was now retired:

Dear Bernard

Thanks for your email. I can understand that my remarks may well have upset you - however, I don't think what I reported was in any way inaccurate - everything that I have posted had in fact already been communicated to you, practically verbatim (I pasted my "post" from the email I sent you).

The reason we felt that your service has been misleading is because you were advertising the property in question as something it was not. You did indeed admit to us you had not seen it yourself, but your original advert in no way reflected what was actually for sale, and on our return to the UK, after we had made contact, your advert had not even been amended. I admit that you were under no obligation at any time to supply us with the two photographs; however, this was the minimum we demanded to see before considering parting with £1000 that would be refundable only if we completed through you!

After we realised the house was the same as one we were already booked to see through another agent, we declined to use your services further.

As it turned out, it was just as well, given that the house hads no usable ceilings, floors, stairs, furnishings, roof, and that each walls were structurally unsound! The video we made of our viewing shows this all too clearly - and given that it is surrounded on all sides by other residences it would not only need the work I estimated, but also permission from each neighbour and the adjoining Hotel Tamaris. To restore this former small hotel (300sqm - not that small at all!) would require serious structural work, the likes of which cause noise and take a lot of time. €200,000 was a conservative estimate, as you'll be able to see when I finally remember to send you a copy of our tape. I don't really feel you are in a position to challenge my estimate right now given that only one of us has to this point actually seen the property...

I have no quarrel with the Bernard Ellis Partnership, or the way you do business. You are quite free to do as you please. On an open forum I have simply expressed my opinion that the buyer might be better off doing more of their own research. Essentially, your advert was hugely misleading, your sales price was 50% greater than that advertised locally by two different estate agents and you hoped to charge £1000 for anyone to even view it when local agents will do so for just €50 - or less! There may be many people looking to invest in a Croatian property that have less time and more money than me; I'm sure your service would suit them just fine. For someone looking purely to get a good deal, however, even you have to admit the figures mentioned above just don't stack up in your favour...

I wish you every success for the future, but respectfully suggest - as before - that you do at least look at the properties you are advertising before offering them for sale. I wouldn't put a deposit down to buy a car I'd neither seen nor driven. And without having seen or driven it, I wouldn't sell it either. Would you?

With very best wishes

BH

Don't think I can be much clearer than that...

[Culchie]

Ben,

Excellent customer testimonial,

How could one get in touch with this Bernard Ellis chap, and avail of his services? ....

[bheywood]

Just to set things straight, I don't think he's a con artist - he's just offering a very poor value service, that's all - it's up to you or I to look elsewhere, as the wife and I did. He is at least vaguely up front with how it all works, unlike some we've encountered (the firm that started this thread off, for instance, who seem to be downright cheats).

If anyone out there is lazy enough and/or rich enough to use his service, go ahead. What was it that Shakespeare said about a fool and his money?

[architect]

Kennedy Coleman & Co actually called me today - they got my number from Findaproperty.com.

We had a fairly unpleasant exchange. She seemed to think the house they had for sale still wasn't mine & even if it were, I should be greatful some one was advertising it

I also discovered she had sent my photo's and architectural drawings of the house to Findaproperty.com as some sort of proof the property had been genuinely supplied by her Croatian Agent!

[Culchie]

It seems that "she's a few sandwiches short of a picnic "

[bellis]

Reply to:- Reply #12 posted on: 04/18/2005 at 08:53:19


Many people visiting this Visit Croatia Forum site seem to be confusing a real estate agent or estate agent with an acquisition agent.

In yet a further effort to clarify the difference:-

Normally real estate agents and estate agents represent the seller (vendor) who pays their fees.

Acquisition Agents (us) represent buyers interests and if they want to use our service then they agree to our fees which are set out in a contract prior to engagement. This contract states our obligations towards the client and their obligations towards us.




Concerning Descriptions of Properties on our Web Page:-

Taking into account that we are not estate or real estate agents, it should be noted that not all properties advertised have been inspected by us.

In the case of not having inspected the property, until we are instructed by a client (subscriber) we may rely on information supplied by an estate or real estate agent or direct from the vendor. This information is an indication and not a part of any condition of purchase.

When a client instructs Croatia Acquisitions Ltd to do so we will inspect a property on their behalf and supply the best possible information available. If clients remain interested in the property after receiving our report they will inspect the property either on their own or accompanied by us. If a prospective client wishes us to inspect a property and we are unable to do this we will not accept their instructions.

Generally, but not totally, the information of properties on our site is either accurate or is an acceptable description for the client to make up their mind whether they would wish to inspect the property.

In the case of the property in Vis according to Ben & Emma Heywood, the information supplied by the vendor to us was a complete miss-description. We have made a note of this on the sales details now published. Ben & Emma Heywood were the only people who have spoken to us about this property and as they did not instruct us (nor register with us), it has not been necessary for us to inspect the property (We only have two properties advertised in Vis, which is not an Island that we frequently visit – we will only go there on the instructions of a retained client). Had we performed an inspection we would have informed any interested buyers and rectified the information in our advertisement.




With regard to the sales prices of properties as advertised by Croatia Acquisitions Limited:-

As per property descriptions, prices are supplied to us by vendors or agents. As part of our service we seek to negotiate the best possible price on behalf of our clients. If the asking price for a property is not value for money we would inform the client, and may also advise against the purchase and suggest alternative properties. A lot of people posting in this forum seem to miss the point that we are there to represent our clients (the buyers) best interests. However, in the case of non-clients such as Emma & Ben Heywood, we do not have the time or resources to provide such a service for non-subscribers.




Finally, with regard to the £1,000 subscription fee:-

Acquisitions agents charge commission on the on a successful purchase of a property, which is our source of income.

We are not asking for a charge of £1,000 before we do anything and then for commission in addition. The £1,000 commitment fee is deducted from the 5% commission we charge on a successful purchase. Basically, our fee is the 5% commission charge, of which you pay £1,000 upfront as a commitment to us. We seek such a commitment because as previously mentioned, our work is very labour intensive and we do not have the time or resources to deal with non-serious buyers.

It has been mentioned before that this service is not suitable for everyone. Those who have the time and experience to research the market for themselves do not need our assistance. We however assist buyer from all over the world (from large-scale developers to small investors or buyers) on occasions when it is not feasible for them to research and inspect properties in Croatia because they live too far away or because they do not have the time to do the ‘legwork’.




Lastly there seems to be a loud voice of objection to us charging for a genuine service to those who agree to pay our fees and are in need of our assistance and there does seem to be some kind of “out-to-get-us” perception of property agents both generally and on this forum. With respect to those who object, may I merely say that you are not obliged to use an acquisition service and you are free to source your properties by your own endeavours or with the assistance of a real estate or estate agent. So if you do not need the service do not use it, do not pay for it and do not be concerned about the charge paid by those who find the service suitable for their requirements.

WE WILL NOT REPLY TO ANY FURTHER POSTS ON THIS NOTICE BOARD, BUT IF THIS EXPLAINATION OR ANYTHING ELSE TO DO WITH OUR SERVICE IS UNCLEAR AND REQUIRES FURTHER CLARIFICATION, PLEASE CONTACT US DIRECTLY AND YOU WILL RECEIVE A REPLY.


Details are below:-


BERNARD ELLIS
CROATIA ACQUISITIONS LIMITED
SPRING HOUSE
SPRING BOTTOM LANE
BLETCHINGLEY
SURREY
RH1 4QZ

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Web Address: www.croatia-acquisitions.co.uk

[bellis]

Reply to Ben Heywood (Reply #18 posted on: 04/19/2005 at 08:44:05)


Welcome back.

You must have been quite dismayed when you returned to have found Emma’s posting.

By now you will realise that we are not selling information but a service and if nothing else by reading our replies you will have a clear idea of what the service is.

In your reply # 20 you say that we are vaguely upfront with how it all works. I am sorry about that but I can not spend any more time then I have explaining our service. I have already taken up more space on the message board then anybody else, going over and over the same thing. So, I think vaguely upfront is perhaps considerably unfair. As for you comments of very poor value service, perhaps for you but not many others – in any case you never subscribed so how can you judge our service fairly. Really?

Remember, if we did not keep to our side of the bargain, as set out in our contract, you get a full refund of the £1,000 subscription fee. But this rarely happens because are clients get good service and are satisfied.

“Put down a deposit to buy a car that you have neither seen or driven” – I would, if it was with somebody I could trust and someone who had more experience then me and understood exactly what I wanted. That would be no problem, especially if I had a written guarantee that if I was not happy I would get my money back.

You have been kind enough to give me good advice, which I appreciate. So, I am going to return the favour. When you go away next time for two weeks lock up your computer, or Emma may accuse somebody else she doesn’t know or understand as being a “Charlatan” (which means a cheat, con-man, deceiver, imposter, swindler). Next time you get back after 2 weeks you could find a law suit on your doormat. As for me her remarks were so silly that they could not be taken seriously.

I send you my kind regards and I hope your development in Vis is going well. I must say I will have to think carefully the next time I offer to try to help someone and deviate for our tried and tested subscription service.


KIND REGARDS


BERNARD ELLIS
CROATIA ACQUISITIONS LIMITED
SPRING HOUSE
SPRING BOTTOM LANE
BLETCHINGLEY
SURREY
RH1 4QZ

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Web Address: www.croatia-acquisitions.co.uk

[Culchie]

Man,

If you talk like you write, no wonder you charge a cool grand up front, you'd need it for the phone bill alone.

[emma]

Mr Ellis, maybe not intentionally, but your advert on findaproperty.co.uk does deceive. It claims the property fronts the sea when it does not - i'm sure many would see this as an important detail to get wrong!

I apologise for any offence my post caused to you but would not have made it had you amended the ad when my husband and I brought its inaccuracy to your attention several months ago.

Anyone who's THAT interested, the ad is still running and is below:

www.findaproperty.co.uk/agent.aspx?agentid=3856&opt=prop&pid=139685

I would certainly vouch that you are extremely up front in your follow up information on your services and no doubt have many satisfied clients who were willing to pay through the nose for complete ease of mind. There is always a market for that!

Sa poštovanjem,

Emma

[bellis]

Reply to Emma « Reply #26 posted on: 04/21/2005 at 11:01:34 »:-


Dear Emma,


Thank you for your message.

I accept your apology and there are no hared feelings. Actually the notice board correspondence did our company some good because people have contacted us expressing an interest in our service.

Since this first started with the Croatia Property Service Message Forum one reader made use of our service, paid the subscription and with our assistance visited Croatia and purchased a property. So, I guess I should thank you although I do not think it was your intention to assist us.

As you now well know, the details of sale of the property in Vis was supplied by the owner. At your request I gave you photos in case it assisted you. You came back and told me that the property was not as described and that you would send me a video to confirm this. You did not keep your word and never sent the video. I did not know you so how could I take your word against the owner. Would that have been fair to the vendor.

Since the time this all began we have had no occasion to visit Vis and check the property for ourselves. If somebody who registered with us had been interested in the property this is what we would have done.

Because of the volume of correspondence that has gone on between you and myself, I cannot possibly conceive that what you are telling me about the property is not true, so I have noted your remarks and altered the details on our advertisement.

Thank you for agreeing that we are extremely upfront with the information we supply, which is the case, and you are quite correct that we do have very many satisfied clients.

As to your remark that they pay through the nose for this service, I must vigorously disagree. In fact what we offer is exceptionally good value for the service the client is given.

I can only repeat, it is suitable for some who need our assistance, but not for those who do all the research themselves and are prepared to meet the cost of visiting Croatia many times themselves to try to find what they are looking for.

Of course, you will no doubt enjoy your research visits to Croatia as it is a most beautiful country, but as I said before, many people just do not have the time to look round for the property they would like to buy.

To end this exchange, can you not see the logic of our service and how it helps many and in the end works out cheaper then the cost of frequent visits?

As I said, I wish you every success in the development of the house you have bought in Vis. If at any time in the future you would like to subscribe to our service I would be delighted to assist you.

In the meantime I have closed my file on this matter and will not be replying to any further notices on the message forum on this matter.


VERY KIND REGARDS


BERNARD ELLIS
CROATIA ACQUISITIONS LIMITED
SPRING HOUSE
SPRING BOTTOM LANE
BLETCHINGLEY
SURREY
RH1 4QZ

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Web Address: www.croatia-acquisitions.co.uk