London estate agent listing Croatian property

[architect]

Some of you may have used www.findaproperty.com to search for property in Croatia.

Kennedy Coleman & Co. use that site. I was interested to see them advertising my property www.findaproperty.com/agent.aspx?agentid=1077&opt=prop&pid=199163 - even though I hadn't instructed them!

The sale details were copied from my own ad on Martin Westby's site www.croatia-holidayandhome.co.uk/properties-for-sale/ruins-unfinished/MW701.html. They had nearly doubled the price - presumably having found a client, they would have approached me themselves posing as the buyer.

I confronted the agents this morning who furiously deny the house is mine, but couldn't supply further details. They eventually claimed the house was just an example of what was available before slamming the phone down.

The agent does not belong to the NAEA or EA Ombudsman scheme and trading standards don't regulate Estate Agents so they won't help either. Findaproperty.com hasn't yet asked the advertiser to remove the listing as they don't feel the advertiser is doing any thing wrong.

I hadn't realised this sort of thing was going on in the UK so watch out!

[yeslehc]

Interesting!!, surely if they did take the information from Martin westbys site , he can have them. Keep us posted

[emma]

I contacted this bunch of charlatans when i first started house-hunting in Croatia - they wouldn't even speak to me unless I paid them £200 first. It makes Broker and others look amateur in their attempts to rip people off. There are some excellent agents dealing in Croatian property (most in Croatia), but you need to be careful.

On the subject of findaproperty.com charlatans, the other UK company 'advertising' properties in Croatia is Croatian Acquisitions Limited. Their advert of a property on Vis island for £85k piqued my interest, but again it was a situation of pay £200 first, then we'll show. I have since viewed the property through local Croatian agents who advertise it for £30k less. Does it front on to the sea as described by Croatian Acquisitions Limited? - NO! - does it even have a sea view? - NO! Delapidated beyond repaid doesn't even begin to describe it. I felt I had to feed this back to Croatian Acquisitions Limited who confessed they have never even visited the property!

Were these agents mis-advertising UK properties in this way, they would be breaking the law under the Properties Misdescriptions Act 1991. Sadly doesn't cover property overseas.

On the positive side, it's easy enough to smell a rat and there are lots of good, trustworthy agents out there too. My husband and I are now the proud owners of a gorgeous stone house in the center of Vis town. Yes we paid a fee - 3% of sale - but there were none of the 'extra' charges you hear about like 50EUR viewing fees, travel costs, etc...

[architect]

Findaproperty claim to pursue best practice to ensure the advertisers are not misdescribing property. I have pressed them on this matter and their final response was:

Dear David,

I have spoken to Kennedy Coleman this morning to request the details of this property advertised on the web. They do not keep the details as they act as an intermediary and give out the contact number of the agent in Croatia, if they believe it to be a genuine interest to buy a property, so they are not prepared to give me the number as they do not want to waste the time of the agent in Croatia.

I’m sorry that there isn’t anything else that I can do.

Regards,

Linda Ward


Obviously generating revenue is more important to Findaproperty than policing Croatian Acquisitions Ltd or Kennedy Coleman and the like.

I've contacted Islington Trading standards again. Their principal is now looking in to the matter.

[architect]

Good news. Since I got the Trading Standards on board Findaproperty have changed their minds and decided to pull the Kennedy Coleman ad. How strange!

[tomo]

Hi

I have an agency which I started few months ago ( I won't tell you which one ) problem is for example if you are customer and you send me an email ( I recived them at least 20-30 everyday), so you are customer and you are looking for property in Croatia, 150m2 apartment,close to sea,sea view,close to marina etc. you are expecting from me to give you 5 offers at least and after that you can say, sorry I don't want any of them or I will wait and think about it for sometime.
So I'm spending my time, money to find you suitable property and then you will say no thank you.
I know that every person is looking to see some offers and that can be seen on every web site of any agency but if you are looking for something special or more details then it is normal to pay something.
People are very strange and reason why I got that kind of sistem is to recognise real customers and not to spend my money and time on every person who send me an email looking for property in Croatia.
Also if any agent is showing you property and driving from town to town it is normal that you have to pay that, he is taking his day from his office and who will pay for that.
I think that Croatian agents are ok, as I heard that in Spain they will take you 10% if you buy property from them.We are charging 3% and that is nothing.
I wanted to work with some agencies in London but they told me if we will work together I have to charge people in Croatia 10% and split with them and they will charge people from Britain 10%?

What do you think about this

[architect]

It's a tough one. Buyers in the UK might visit 10's of properties before deciding which to buy and many more to on the internet before deciding which to go see and who with. It's all free of course but then the agents wouldn't travel miles to a property out of their area. Buyers need accurate information and lots of it, before they decide to buy, but replying to individual emails is not a very efficient way of dealing with enquires - I've replied to dozens so I know it's very time consuming. A good accessible data base would be a start - when i was buying a lot of agents didn't even have a paper list, not one they were prepared to show me any way. If you travel long distances to view a property I don't think it's unreasonable in those cases to expect a small contribution to cover the costs provided when you get get there the property was as promised and not some thing totally different.

[tomo]

Ok thank you for your answer.

[bellis]

RESPONSE BY CROATIA ACQUISITIONS LIMITED:-


I would be grateful for the opportunity to explain to your readers who we are and what we do, and answer the comments made by Emma (Reply #2 posted on: 04/14/2005 at 05:49:55)

Emma and Ben Heywood have some sort of a problem with our company which has been going on for some time now. They seem to be unable to grasp the service we offer, which is written in plain English, while other people do not have the same problem in understanding what we do.

Emma & Ben Heywood made the same remarks on the Croatia Property Services message board and we replied to them. Obviously having not understood what we had to say they now post their same "grouse" on this site. In a way I suppose we should be grateful because many people read about our service on the Croatia Property Services message board, contacted us and decided it was the service that they needed.

Emma & Ben Heywood were not clients of ours. They did not pay a subscription and we were not representing their interests. They did contact me to tell me they were trying to buy a property on the Island of Vis. At that time the neighbour of my partner from Bosnia Herzegovina had been offered a house in Vis, which neither of us had seen, but which we did advertise for sale on the instructions of the owner. I told B. Heywood about the property, but also made it clear that I had not personally inspected it and could make no comment regarding the condition of the property or the asking price. They said they were going to Vis in any case and if I could obtain some photos and the address they would look at the property. We supplied this to assist them and also my partner's neighbour. Mrs Heywood makes some comment about the price but for certain if they had been interested this would have been negotiable and the vendor would only have been able to expect to receive the value of the property, which may have been completely different from the price he is asking. As for the cost of renovations, I can not comment other then to say that it is in no way feasible to spend €200,000 renovating a small property of that size and if they were clients of mine I would certainly be recommending that they obtain some alternative quotations.

THE PROPERTIES ADVERTISED ON OUR WEB PAGES ARE SUPPLIED TO US THROUGH OUR AGENTS IN CROATIA OR DIRECTLY BY THE VENDOR. THE DETAILS THEY PROVIDE ARE THE DETAILS WE USE FOR OUR ADVERTISEMENTS. WE CREATE THE ADVERTISEMENT AND ASK THE VENDOR TO CONFIRM THEY ARE HAPPY WITH IT. WE DO ASK THAT ANY CHANGES TO DETAILS, PRICE, ETC ARE REPORTED TO US SO WE CAN KEEP OUR INFORMATION UP TO DATE. PRICES ARE NEGOTIABLE AND WE USE EXPERIENCED LOCAL CROATIAN (ENGLISH SPEAKING) NEGOTIATORS TO ACT ON BEHALF OF OUR CLIENTS AND PURCHASE THE PROPERTY AT THE BEST POSSIBLE PRICE.


I welcome any discussions with the Islington Trading Standards as we are a bonified company and offer an excellent service with very many satisfied clients.

Perhaps you as a reader would care to read the following which gives details of our service and make your own judgement.

As for Emma calling us Charlatans, for the time being I choose to take the remark from where it came, but I would carefully monitor any future libellous remarks that she may make.

An explanation of what we do is to follow in post below:-

[bellis]

CROATIA ACQUISITIONS RESPONSE (CONTINUED...):-

Who are we?

My name is Bernard Ellis and I am an acquisition agent who has been visiting Croatia for over 25 years. I have many contacts and friends in the country. I understand the system of purchasing and selling property and have considerable experience in this field from having concluded over the years many purchases and sales on a regular basis on behalf of clients.

How do we differ from estate and real estate agents?

We only represent the buyer and not the seller. We provide a personal service on a one-to-one basis by firstly establishing from England the buyers particular requirements and then by offering suitable properties which meet their criteria.

We have an extensive connection of local dealers who will source properties for our clients. Often these properties are not generally advertised for sale but we obtain the details of what somebody is thinking of selling or our contacts know of someone who may own several houses and would be open to receiving an offer for one of them. Our contacts also keep in touch with classified advertisements in local Croatian newspapers. Apart from this we have good connections with estate agents and builders with whom we cooperate rather then compete.


What therefore can I offer my clients more then they can either do for themselves or obtain from estate or real estate agents operating in Croatia?

Twenty five years experience in the Croatian property market and unlimited time and attention to meet their individual needs. Many of my clients do not have the time to research the market for themselves and this is where we come in by helping them to locate what they are looking for and by doing all the ground work. Most of the work we do is carried out in this country so when the client visits Croatia they do not waste time visiting areas and properties which are not suitable for their requirements.

Other clients do not have the time or live in counties too far away from Croatia to allow for regular inspections so we do it for them. They can rely on us to give an impartial description and report because we have no vested interests with the seller and only represent the buyers.

Last month I travelled to Croatia with a journalist and a well known theatre critic and today I asked her for a reference and to follow is what she said:-

"You’ve heard it’s an ‘emerging market’ and you dream of a lovely little house or apartment in Croatia. Maybe you’ve even been doing some background research. But, if like me you have little time to make many visits and explore the options, how do you go about finding that holiday home?

I’m used to researching, it’s my job as a writer and journalist. But even so the amount of information out there on the internet, television and in publications can be overwhelming. At some point you have to make a choice and happily for me it was the right one. I decided to use the services of Ellis Property Partnership (Now Croatia Acquisitions Limited).

I arrived, with a fellow investor, at Heathrow Airport to meet Bernard Ellis who was accompanying us to Croatia to view properties. We’d had discussions ahead of time on location, size and price. Bernard has been visiting Croatia for over 25 years so was very useful and helpful in refining our search. I had been regularly checking the website for new additions and also knew his people on the ground in Croatia were keeping an eye open for something that would suit.

Everything went extremely smoothly. Bernard had booked our flight tickets and accommodation and we just reimbursed him. When we arrived in Split we were met by Denis, Bernard’s contact, and were driven to our hotel in Split. The next two days were packed with viewings. We were looking for an apartment we could use but also let. We saw off-plan, on-plan, mainland and island. Everything was organised and we were driven to each site. It went like clockwork. We even managed a little sunbathe at a café table in between visits.

Not only was the whole process so simple but we were travelling with people who know the country well, speak the language, and could answer any of the questions we might have. And yes, in just two days we found our place in the sun. We will be close to Split in a brand new apartment overlooking the ocean. It’s just a ten minute walk down into Trogir, a most delightful town by the sea. The architecture reminds me of Venice and I’m looking forward to sunny lazy days sitting by the palm-lined promenade with a glass of lovely Croatian wine. That’s of course when I’m not on my own terrace with its sea view.

We’re still have to go through the legal process but will have our hands held all the way. There will be no worries over finding a local solicitor or notary as that will be arranged for us. When we finally get the keys we have decided to use the company in Croatia to provide a reasonably priced furnishing package. And then the adventure starts when we go out and see it finished and ready to use.

I was most impressed with Croatia and equally impressed with the service provided by Ellis Property Partnership. I couldn’t have imagined an easier time."

Michele Nevard ( writer ) London 16th March 2005


This encapsulates our service.

We are not a large company and I work as an individual assisting those who require my expertise by undertaking to try to help them to find exactly what they are looking for. I ask them to make a commitment to me by paying a £1000 subscription fee because my service is extremely labour intensive and therefore I can only deal with serious buyers. This registration fee is refunded by way of a deduction from the 5% commission I charge on a successful purchase. Each person who subscribes to the service receives an agreement which clearly sets out our conditions of engagement. Anybody who is not satisfied with the service we offer will have a refund of the £1000 subscription. There is no time limit to our service and we will continue with the client for as long as it takes to find what they are looking for. We oversee all the formalities and legalities to make sure the property has a clean title and when successfully purchased it is correctly registered in their name.

We are not a "fly-by-night" company. We have substantial assets and have banked for twenty years with:-

Coutts and Co, 440 Strand, London, WC2R 0QS

Any prospective client is welcome to ask their bank manager to contact our bank who will willingly supply a reference regarding our respectability and trustworthiness.


I am sincere in my endeavours and I give good value for money, and on a personal level I can say I only do this work because:-

"I love Croatia. I love meeting people and assisting people to find something nice in a stunningly beautiful country which has enormous potential for rising rental income and good capital growth"


We offer the service for 5% commission of the purchase price of a successful purchase and I am sure you will agree that this is good value for money.

We have very many satisfied clients.

We charge a subscription fee of £1000.00 so that we can identify genuine buyers from casual enquiries. This upfront refundable fee enables us to use our time with those who really want and need our help. Without any doubt there are those who do not such as Emma Heywood who rightly did not use the service and why should she - having no need of our help and doing very well on her own.

The £1000.00 subscription fee is deducted from the 5% commission we charge on a successful purchase.

Of course if you do not need the service, do not use it, but if you feel we can assist you, you are welcome to contact us.

WE ONLY WANT TO DEAL WITH THOSE WHO WE ARE ABLE TO ASSIST AND NEED OUR HELP.

PLEASE REMEMBER, IF ANY OF OUR SUBSCRIBERS ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE SERVICE WE GIVE WE REFUND THE £1,000 SUBSCRIPTION FEE.


WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM ANYBODY WHO WOULD MORE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR SERVICE.



VERY KIND REGARDS


BERNARD ELLIS
CROATIA ACQUISITIONS LIMITED
SPRING HOUSE
SPRING BOTTOM LANE
BLETCHINGLEY
SURREY
RH1 4QZ

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Web Address: www.croatia-acquisitions.co.uk

[Culchie]

emma said:

On the subject of findaproperty.com charlatans, the other UK company 'advertising' properties in Croatia is Croatian Acquisitions Limited. Their advert of a property on Vis island for £85k piqued my interest, but again it was a situation of pay £200 first, then we'll show. I have since viewed the property through local Croatian agents who advertise it for £30k less. Does it front on to the sea as described by Croatian Acquisitions Limited? - NO! - does it even have a sea view? - NO! Delapidated beyond repaid doesn't even begin to describe it. I felt I had to feed this back to Croatian Acquisitions Limited who confessed they have never even visited the property!

Were these agents mis-advertising UK properties in this way, they would be breaking the law under the Properties Misdescriptions Act 1991. Sadly doesn't cover property overseas.

Bernard, your extensive reply does not address this simple question though.

[bellis]

I would like to repeat that we are a bonified, respectably constituted company.

We offer a service to assist people to purchase in Croatia.

When people contact us we make it clear that we try to update our information on properties offered for sale on a regular basis, but we cannot guarantee that all properties offered are still available.

With regard to the description of the properties, we will disclose whether we have inspected the property or whether the information given is as supplied by the vendor.

People who know the Croatian market will understand that this information can not be relied upon and nobody would responsibly buy a property anywhere in Croatia without first visiting the location, inspecting the property, checking the title and ensuring that it is suitable for their requirements.

If we are instructed to represent a client then we are prepared to inspect the property on their behalf and give the best report possible under the prevailing circumstances. If people wish to use our service this is what we would do.

It is a well known fact that in the Croatian market is concerned, prices are negotiable and vendors often offer at inflated and then enter into the game of negotiating and sometimes selling at considerably less then their original asking price. There are many examples on the market of the same property being offered by different agents at different prices, with some agents offering the property at less then the price indicated by the vendor in the knowledge that the seller will in any case accept less. Croatia Acquisitions Limited advertise the property at the price given by the vendor or by another agent, but represent the buyers interests and try to secure the property at the lowest possible price.

Croatia is a large country with a long coastline and many habited islands. It is not reasonable for any agent to inspect all properties offered to the for sale, but only those convenient for them to do so or properties for which they receive instructions.

I hope this answers your questions but if it doesn't and you are specific as to what the question is we will answer any queries.

We are trying to do a good professional job in a market we understand and at all times we are representing the interest of buyers and not sellers.

So far as our £1,000 subscription fee is concerned, there will be many agents who may be reading this reply and who will sympathise with us at having to ask for this to avoid time wasters.

Genuine buyers will have no problem with this commitment because the £1000 is refunded against the 5% commission we charge on a successful purchase.

Working in this way we do have the opportunity to focus all our efforts on genuine buyers and can therefore provide for them the service they expect and deserve.

As for Ben & Emma Heywood, they never used our service and I told them I had not inspected the property. I tried to help them because they were going to Vis in any case. They saw the property, it was miss-described and not what they wanted, and there seems to be some confusion about the price. Had they instructed us and agreed to use our service all this would have been clarified prior to inspection. They phoned me on their return, told me they had found a wonderful property and that they were very happy. I am delighted for them and I wish them every success in the conversion work they are undertaking. I fail to understand what I have done to cause them so much concern and why they have entered onto this ongoing vendetta against us. If they would like to explain where they have suffered loss and what is their particular cause celebre I will try to help if I can. I can not say anymore because I have said all that I know and I can not account for the strange behaviour of some people.

Bernard Ellis
Croatia Acquisitions Limited

[Culchie]

You still haven't answered to the following question !!


On the subject of findaproperty.com charlatans, the other UK company 'advertising' properties in Croatia is Croatian Acquisitions Limited. Their advert of a property on Vis island for £85k piqued my interest, but again it was a situation of pay £200 first, then we'll show. I have since viewed the property through local Croatian agents who advertise it for £30k less. Does it front on to the sea as described by Croatian Acquisitions Limited? - NO! - does it even have a sea view? - NO! Delapidated beyond repaid doesn't even begin to describe it. I felt I had to feed this back to Croatian Acquisitions Limited who confessed they have never even visited the property!

Were these agents mis-advertising UK properties in this way, they would be breaking the law under the Properties Misdescriptions Act 1991. Sadly doesn't cover property overseas.


How can you justify charging people £1000, and then come along and say that you haven't visited a property that you are recommending to them to buy? ... or even able to stand over your recommendations?

A concise answer will do, no need for an essay.

[Culchie]

P.S What has Ben Heywood got to do with this thread? ... are they other happy customers of yours?

[Graham - Bosmere]

Culchie, Emma is Ben Heywood's partner, somewhere this was stated, but maybe not clearly in this thread. If you look at Peters board you will find a thread along the same lines as this one.