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Post by onetoten on Feb 11, 2006 23:53:02 GMT 1
I've been all over my town this last week. And I have been ill this last few months. Probably iller than I've been for 20 years. More antibiotics than I have taken in 20 years.
Fortunately I have had a fantastic old English speaking, Croatian friend with me, who knows so much about the mechanics of this place. To get things done that I should have done 2 years ago. The air is clear, clean, sharp, and the sun is bright. Beautiful.
Yesterday, Jeez, the whole thing came back...Coughing...Rough. I mean really rough. But today, out there again. Dressed there for a Croatian winter. Several layers. Boiling. Blistering. Clear, sharp, mighty air in the lungs.
For me personally, this place has something you wouldn't want to leave forever. Whether Croatia is selling out or will be selling out, I would say, it probably will.
If I was born here I would resent that.
Just as I, and born Englishman, resents watching, on Sky News, thousands of Islamists marching through London. But, there is bugger all I can do about it.
That's about it.
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Feb 12, 2006 0:20:31 GMT 1
Weren't you moaning about wanting to sell up and leave just last week?  |
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Post by Slatkica on Feb 12, 2006 11:14:06 GMT 1
I've been all over my town this last week. And I have been ill this last few months. Probably iller than I've been for 20 years. More antibiotics than I have taken in 20 years. Fortunately I have had a fantastic old English speaking, Croatian friend with me, who knows so much about the mechanics of this place. To get things done that I should have done 2 years ago. The air is clear, clean, sharp, and the sun is bright. Beautiful. Yesterday, Jeez, the whole thing came back...Coughing...Rough. I mean really rough. But today, out there again. Dressed there for a Croatian winter. Several layers. Boiling. Blistering. Clear, sharp, mighty air in the lungs. For me personally, this place has something you wouldn't want to leave forever. Whether Croatia is selling out or will be selling out, I would say, it probably will. If I was born here I would resent that. Just as I, and born Englishman, resents watching, on Sky News, thousands of Islamists marching through London. But, there is bugger all I can do about it. That's about it. Exactly! see here's a man who knows what he is talking about  |
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Post by gmh on Feb 12, 2006 12:07:03 GMT 1
Well from what I've seen on the coast here, it's the locals that build and renovate in the cheapest uggliest fashion possible.
Where as the Foriegners have the money and the want to build and renovate in a more sympathetic manner.
Croatia is at no risk of being over run by foriegners, except for the 3 months of summer, which is unavoidable if you wish to make money from tourism. Fact is, you will never be able to keep people away from a beautiful destination.
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Post by daria14 on Feb 12, 2006 20:25:48 GMT 1
the foreigners are coming in and building big new stuff..great but how does a hilton hotel fit into 13th century roman styles?? its great that their is tourism and all and it may not seem like a big deal now that a few foreigners are coming in and buying, but think about the future not now...if this rate continues the way it is, which most likely will happen, croatia will be like canada..no one culture but a very mixed country...
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Post by mark2 on Feb 12, 2006 20:45:05 GMT 1
the foreigners are coming in and building big new stuff..great but how does a hilton hotel fit into 13th century roman styles?? its great that their is tourism and all and it may not seem like a big deal now that a few foreigners are coming in and buying, but think about the future not now...if this rate continues the way it is, which most likely will happen, croatia will be like canada..no one culture but a very mixed country... I'm sorry but I still don't understand your viewpoint, foreigners from where? All of the expat Croatians from Switzerland, Germany etc. The Chinese??? Whom? I agree a Hilton does not sympathise with Roman Ruins, but it does sleep more people. "croatia will be like canada..no one culture but a very mixed country"...Is it not now, you live in Canada and complain about foreigners in Croatia, Kettle and Pot time |
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Post by daria14 on Feb 12, 2006 23:31:58 GMT 1
yes i see why people have comments just because i live in Canada and complain about foreigners in Croatia...problem is i am NOT a foreginer to croatia. I am croatian!
I mean forerigners such as people from great Britian, Germany, France etc...and the analogy of the hilton hotel great it sleeps more but cant you architeurally include the roman ruins design and make it look like the 5 star hotel fits in croatia??
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Post by irac on Feb 13, 2006 8:54:15 GMT 1
This idiotic debate knows no bounds.
What is a "foreigner"? Is it someone who sits thousands or hundreds of miles away and complains that the home of their ancestors is no longer what they were told it was?
Let's get this straight, Croats are a recent addition to the land, if you wish to play the nationalistic card which has done nothing but drag this country and others backwards, and allow all sorts of creeps and criminals brainwash and manipulate, control and destroy, then fine. Let's get all Croats and other Slavs out, lets get rid of anyone with a hint of Greek or Roman blood, and furthermore let's track down those pesky metal age and neolithic folks and send them back to wherever they migrated from! D&*n them all for their medalling and building of arena's, fortresses and the like.
Let's track down the almost miniscule blood of the first homo sapiens who set foot here hand them back the land, unless there are neanderthal claims, which should be sent to the European Court of Human Rights, oh wait, they're not quite human, oh well, send them to the Hague, most there are in the same category!
The vast majority of ugly buildings in the country are here for longer than this or the last tourist boom. If anything foreign investors have tried to seek and removate buildings with character (generalising I know) or a bit of history, that has been neglected and misused.
Until Croatia fully accepts the rule of law and brings on board morality and principles in it's heritage appreciation and conservation, address all problems to Zagreb and the opcine who routinely destroy ancient and historical moonuments for their own gain!
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Post by bobsyouruncle on Feb 13, 2006 9:43:30 GMT 1
Well said Irac, I'm getting increasingly exasperated with this kind of attitude.
Regarding Hilton Hotel, as far as I know there is only one in whole of Croatia, in Dubrovnik, and it is an old 19th century building that has now been fully restored and only adds to beauty of Dubrovnik.
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Post by irac on Feb 13, 2006 16:11:27 GMT 1
Thanks Bobs, it just kills me to hear this nonsensical claptrap from people who most likely have a vested interest in blathering what they do (whether they be local or international property folks) about foreigners buying everything and the country losing it's identity. What's absolutely frightening is that if foreign folks had their way, they'd preserve as much as was possible of ethnic make up and local traditions as a means of being somewhere different. Whereas I see "locals" here doing their utmost to run down what they claim to be stupid folk rituals.
Well guess what, a lot of numbskulls in Ireland were very adept at doing just that, but it took the appreciation and recognition of foreigners, as well as diligence and fortitude of committed locals, and very importantly the funding and committment to preservation of history and culture from the EC/EU to elevate our national dance to worldwide acclaim (just one example).
When there is an actual "real" sense of nationalism and nationality here, then I can listen to it, but not the "they all want to get what we have" campaigners. Get what, rocks, oversalted food, Bura, expensive services and travel (air)? It would serve far better to look forward all inclusively, gain education and experience before buying into the manufactured grievances of "locals" who have everything to lose by closer inspection of their dealings.
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Post by mark2 on Feb 13, 2006 19:58:21 GMT 1
yes i see why people have comments just because i live in Canada and complain about foreigners in Croatia...problem is i am NOT a foreginer to croatia. I am croatian! I mean forerigners such as people from great Britian, Germany, France etc...and the analogy of the hilton hotel great it sleeps more but cant you architeurally include the roman ruins design and make it look like the 5 star hotel fits in croatia?? Ooooh Yes! YOU ARE A FOREIGNER, living in a country called Canada, you speak with a strange accent, you are not Canadian but I bet you contribute to the economy, get on well with the NATIVE Canadians, are accepted and enjoy the country! So tell me, where is the difference? I am English, I bought a semi-derelict property in Croatia and restored it, employing local tradesmen. I pay taxes, I help the local economy (as much as I can) I have (i hope) several Croatian friends who are happy to see the area on the up, would you like me to undo all of the work and put the property back on the market "FOR SALE" but only to persons with a Croatian Identity Card? |
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Charles
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www.aplaceindalmatia.com
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Post by Charles on Feb 13, 2006 23:10:31 GMT 1
Shame(?!) such a long thread has to end but there REALLY is nothing else to say - the last two posts sum it up perfectly. Just to add my 2 kn worth though! - we are renovating our house in Kastela and are doing everything 'the right way' re permissions, permits etc despite the prospect of lengthy dental surgery with no anaesthetic being easier to face. However, what is really galling is having to battle to get every little detail agreed because 'it's not the Croatian way'. We are just about the only people in Kastela who have even attempted to legally preserve the heritage but we are certainly made to sweat blood and tears. Like Mark we're pumping money into the local economy and want to enjoy the experience of living here not bleed the country for every last penny. If the 'foreigners coming' equals contributing to preserving the fabric of the country's many historic buildings then they should be welcomed with open arms and planning processes should be made transparent, consistent, logical and speedy. It becomes a virtuous circle as this attracts more tourists who spend more which leads to a higher GDP.........
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Post by onetoten on Feb 14, 2006 0:10:11 GMT 1
Weren't you moaning about wanting to sell up and leave just last week? Yes. This is true. But I am not alone here. And I am still ill. Coughing and spluttering, night and day. Some of it probably started in the UK in November, when we were snowed in. But, I still am not how I would like to be. In fitness. For myself. I really don't care. But Iam not alone. Such are the problems you face when you 'think' you can change things. Alone, maybe. With a wife and kids and grand-kids...You are torn. So there you go. I could feed you a line, but this is the situation, for me. My problem. Just sharing it. You take it or leave it. There are programs about these things, on UK tv. This is how it is, on the ground, for me at this moment. Right now. |
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Post by daria14 on Feb 14, 2006 2:03:05 GMT 1
IRAC SAYS: "What is a "foreigner"?
DARIA14 SAYS: It is a person who comes from a foreign country; someone who does not owe allegiance to your country... happy??
BOBSYOURUNCLE SAYS: "Regarding Hilton Hotel..."
DARIA14 SAYS: It is called an example. i just chose a high-end modern hotel as an example..im not really referring to "Hilton Hotels in Croatia"
MARK SAYS: "Ooooh Yes! YOU ARE A FOREIGNER, living in a country called Canada, you speak with a strange accent, you are not Canadian but I bet you contribute to the economy, get on well with the NATIVE Canadians, are accepted and enjoy the country!"
DARIA14 SAYS: how do you know i have an accent? do you know me? have you ever heard me speak? NO..so you cant make judgements like that.
And on that note, if this forum should "end", which it wont (cheesy) get up and leave!
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Post by irac on Feb 14, 2006 7:25:31 GMT 1
Daria, that's claptrap and you know it, owe allegiance, how do you show allegiance? Enlighten the world!
Is it by avoiding paying taxes (which means the majority of folks I know are the most allied people in the world), or is it perhaps by sitting and complaining about life here and doing nothing about it (which brings a lot of the "locals" into the equation too). Or maybe it's doing construction and business according to the law, oh wait, that means almost every "foreigner" I've met and dealt with is not actually a foreigner as they show more alegiance than locals! Oops!
Thank the heavens there is actually an educated and outward looking class here, and most of the people I've dealt with at least accept outsiders coming in for what it's worth.
If you're such a patriot, what on earth are you doing hiding in Canada? Come home right away, grab an aprtment that might be vacant in an area of the country that needs energy and help, and then start railing against foreigners.
So what constitutes a foreigner? My neighbours came in from Bosnia, on the other side they're mixed orthod/cath, hmm, who's a foreigner in your eyes.
Get real and step up to the plate, if you want to get foreigners out, come here and do it yourself by workign hard enough to build up the economy to make the country self-sufficient!
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