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Post by krkisland on Aug 2, 2007 22:14:03 GMT 1
The contract specifically says they must refund 10% deposit and 10% on top of that if they the seller pulls out. Id of thought they would have to do this before they sell it to someone else.
Unfortunately my Croatian wife is away so I cant translate the contract . :-(
Clause 6 -- not sure if this is the one Ukopna Prodajna neto korisna povrsina (NKP) ugorvorenog stana, utvrdena je na osnovu projektne dokumentacijie. Moguca odstupanja od utvrdene NKP (u iznosu od +/-2%) ne utjece na vrijednost stana
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Post by krkisland on Aug 2, 2007 22:15:30 GMT 1
Ive contacted Lawyers in Rijeka but they cant get anyone to contact me until Monday. Will see what they say :-)
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Post by krkisland on Aug 2, 2007 22:21:28 GMT 1
Can anyone translate?
Clause 4 - Pbvezu placanja poreza na promet nekretnina snosit ce kupac
kupac ce placanje izvrsiti na ziro-racun prodavatelija XXXXXX kod Splitske Banke d.d
Prodavatelj garantira da ce cijena stambenog prostora ostati nepromijenjena i prilikom sklapanja konacnog ugovora, a kupac se odrice potrazivanja po osnovi kamata na paceni predujam.
Clause 5 Prodavatalj daja garanciju za kvalitetu izvedenih radova u trajanju od dvije godine, a za opremu onoliko vremena koliko daje garanciju proizvodac opreme, racunajuci od dana promopredaje nekretnine.
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Post by capio on Aug 2, 2007 23:10:50 GMT 1
He said his cat is pregnant and more than three shakes after a pee is playing with it.
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Post by krkisland on Aug 2, 2007 23:16:35 GMT 1
LOL - he said im gonna rip you off more like LOL
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Post by zorro on Aug 3, 2007 6:21:59 GMT 1
in my opinion a local lawyer with local contacts is often a better option Not always true, sometimes you have to get a lawyer from Zagreb because all the local ones are corrupt. Outside their circle of influence so to speak.
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Post by Carol on Aug 3, 2007 13:09:45 GMT 1
yes and no. Sometimes you need a lawyer who will use his local contacts and friendships to just get things done. Agreed though that if the lawyer knows the other side it could work against you as easily as it could work for you. In your case, the lawyer could help broker a deal or he could advise the seller of exactly how determined you are to see it through (although if he speaks english and knows about this website he could deduce that for himself!)
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Post by krkisland on Aug 3, 2007 17:25:09 GMT 1
Todays update: Agent has told me that seller (company) says they will give money back and is asking for a bank account to transfer it into. I still havent confirmed if this with include the additional 10%. We have a contract (legal copy) that has gone via notary with the condition that states they must return an additional 10% on top of the 10% i gave them. I suspect I can use this to fight for more money if they wont pay this back.
Agent has suggested I email the company (in croatian) stating that we offered to complete purchase but they have decided not to sell. He says we should do this as the seller could always claim that it was us that didnt complete the sale (and then keep the deposit claiming we didnt finalise sale)... not sure if what he says is true..?
I was also thinking that perhaps it may be better to use a debt collection agency as this is Croatia. Play their game :-)
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Post by Carol on Aug 3, 2007 18:54:46 GMT 1
so you have decided that you want the double deposit but would be happy to accept the single deposit?
If so, it sounds like the agent is giving good advice. However i wouldn't do it by email i would serve the letter on them (using the post office). If you are buying through your company make sure that you attach your company stamp.
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Post by darcy on Aug 3, 2007 23:31:09 GMT 1
This does not surprise me - let's be real - they found another buyer ready to pay more and they want out of contract that is perfectly fine, but that is Croatia and I do not believe in it.
I can bet they will hold your deposit as long as they can and I am not sure you will receive the deposit you paid without a fight. They will wait to see what you are capable of doing. ("Catch me if you can.")
If you have your contract in order and if you really have a “double deposit back” condition, you will be fine and I am sure you should be OK in court, but it will take a long time and you will possibly face some lawyers trying to get money from you and not delivering etc.
What I will be afraid of, is there any chance there are lots of signed contracts with the paid deposits and is there any chance seller going bust (formally or really)?
From the Croatian sentences you posted I cannot see the "double deposit condition." Well, I learned my Croatian because I did not believe Croatian translators (very well paid by the company), that will tell you something.
As Carol said, prepare a very formal letter, ask for payment in "7 days" and send it by registered mail. If you do not receive the response, contact a good lawyer.
In future, I suggest you leaving the deposit with a lawyer or notary public of your choice, I think Carol can tell us more how it works how in Croatia.
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Post by rijekafan on Aug 4, 2007 8:20:57 GMT 1
If you need a good Krk agent contact Mirsada at Qtim in Rijeka. There is a very good lawyer in the room next door.
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Post by Sasha on Aug 4, 2007 11:53:53 GMT 1
Can anyone translate? Clause 4 - Pbvezu placanja poreza na promet nekretnina snosit ce kupac Trans: the responsibility to pay property taxes is with the buyer. kupac ce placanje izvrsiti na ziro-racun prodavatelija XXXXXX kod Splitske Banke d.d The buyer will pay via the bank account of the vendor at Splitska Banka d.d. Prodavatelj garantira da ce cijena stambenog prostora ostati nepromijenjena i prilikom sklapanja konacnog ugovora, a kupac se odrice potrazivanja po osnovi kamata na paceni predujam. The seller guarantees that the asking price of the property will remain unchanged at the final signing of the contract, and the buyer is giving up any demands to get interest on his deposit. Clause 5 Prodavatalj daja garanciju za kvalitetu izvedenih radova u trajanju od dvije godine, a za opremu onoliko vremena koliko daje garanciju proizvodac opreme, racunajuci od dana promopredaje nekretnine. The seller guarantees the quality of the works for 2 years, and for the equipment as per the manufacturer's guarantee starting from the day of completion. Hope this is helpful, although maybe not quite what you were looking for! Please don't give up on this, and stick to your rights! BTW, love your blog.
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Post by krkisland on Aug 4, 2007 16:53:03 GMT 1
Thanks everyone. Appreciate your assistance.
The company is a large company in Croatia so suspect if they went bankrupt they would have to of formed another company especially to make bankrupt.
Apparently its a big company in Croatia not a small operation.
I will get a formal letter out to them asking for response in 7 days for deposit and make sure its registered. If I receive no reply it looks like it will have to go through the courts. Hopefully the case should be on my side as the contract is a legal document and specifically states the double deposit clause. If it goes to court I suspect I will claim more than the additional 10% and claim damages on top of this.
The agent suspects that the Director of the company wants this flat as he owns all the others in the block and his family will stay in them every summer. Or it could as you say be that another buyer has offered way above what I was paying for the flat that will easily cover my deposit x 2. Who knows..
I will contact my agent today
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Post by krkisland on Aug 4, 2007 19:09:32 GMT 1
Thanks for translations
Hmm be interesting to know what these other clauses mean below. Wonder if any of these mention the deposit or could assist me when it comes to getting my deposit back. My agent will be sending a registered letter on Monday.
I have typed more clauses from the document below: Appreciate if anyone can assist with translations.
Clause 3
Kupac i prodavatelj obvezju se sklopiti konacni Ugovor o kupnji nekretnine u skladu s knjiznim stanjem po provedbi eleborata o etaziranju u zemljisnim knjigama opcinskog suda u Krku. Prodavetelj se obvezuje sve radnje potrebne radi izrade, ovjere i provodenja elaborata o etaziranju kod nadleznih tijela provesti u najkracim rokovima i o svom trosku.
Clause 7
Eventualno razvrgnuce ovog Predugovora moguce je iskljucivo temeljem obostranog pismenog sporazuma izmedu Prodavatelja i Kupca. Stranke su suglasne da bi u slacaju razvrgnuca i jednostranog odustanka od realizacije ovog pravnog posla od strane kupca, Prodavetelj pretrpio stetu. Iz tog razloga Prodavetelj ima pravo zadrzati primljenu kaparu ukoliko kupac odustane od kupnje nekretnine iz ovog Predugovora. Ukoliko Prodavetelj jednostrano odustane od realizacije ovog pravnog posla duzan je kupcu isplati dvostruku kaparu iz 4. st 2. ovog predugovora.
clause 8 Prodavetelj jamci Kupcu da su nekretnine koje su predmet ovog Predugovora u cijelosti vlasnistvo Prodavatelja i da su opterecene slijedecim teretima: u- iznosu od 1.500.00,00 Euros(jedanmilijunpetstotisucaeura) kao dugorocni kredit sa kamatom u visini 1-mjesecni EURIBOR + 2.15% godisnje, promjenjivom zajedno sa naknadama i uvjetima iz ugovora o kreditu br .xxxx/05, racunajuci od dana 16.01.2006 godine pa do konacnog namirenja potrazivanja-u iznosu od 300.00,00 Euros (tristotisucaeura) kao dugorocni kredit sa kamatom u visini 1-mjesecni EURIBOR+ 2.15% godisnje, promjenjivom, zajedno sa naknadama i uvjetima iz Ugovora o kreditu br.xxxx/05 racunajuci od dana 16.01.2006 godine pa do konacnog namirenja potrazivanja za korist HVB splitske banke d.d. Split. R Boskovica 16.
Po isplati ukupne kupoprodajne cijene iz clanka 4. ovog Ugovora, Prodavatelj jamci, Prodavatelj jamci da ce Splitska Banka Kupcima izdati ispravu podobnu za brisanje tereta sa nekretnine koja je predmet ovog Ugovora.
Clause 9
Prodavetelj ce odmah po potpisu konacnog kupoprodajnog ugovora i nakon isplate kupoprodajne cijene izdati kupcu ispravu podobnu za upis prave vlasnistva u zemljisne knjige.
Clause 10
U posjed nekretnina iz clanka 1. ovog Predugovora kupac ce stupiti odmah po isplati kupopradajne cijene i po potpisu Primopredajnog zapisnika.
Clause 11 Stranke sporazumno ugovaraju da sve troskove vezane uz posjed i vlasnistvo nekretnine do stupanja kupca u posjed, snosi prodavatelj.
Clause 12 Eventualni sporovi iz ovog predugovora rjesavat ce se prvenstveno dogovornim putem a ukoliko se na taj naclin spor ne bi mogao rijesiti, o sporu odlucuje stvarno nadlezan opcinski sud.
Clause 13 Ovaj predugovor je zakljucen u 4 (cetiri) istovjetna primjerka, od kojih Prodavetelj zadrzava 3 (tri) primjerka, a kupac 1 (jedan)
Ovaj Predugovor predstavlja pravu volju stranaka, te ga one u znak suglasnosti s preuzetim pravima i obvezama osobno i dobrovoljno potpisuju.
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Post by Aleksandra on Aug 4, 2007 22:03:15 GMT 1
The clause 7 quoted below is the one mentioning deposit. Translation is below the quote. Clause 7 Eventualno razvrgnuce ovog Predugovora moguce je iskljucivo temeljem obostranog pismenog sporazuma izmedu Prodavatelja i Kupca. Stranke su suglasne da bi u slacaju razvrgnuca i jednostranog odustanka od realizacije ovog pravnog posla od strane kupca, Prodavetelj pretrpio stetu. Iz tog razloga Prodavetelj ima pravo zadrzati primljenu kaparu ukoliko kupac odustane od kupnje nekretnine iz ovog Predugovora. Ukoliko Prodavetelj jednostrano odustane od realizacije ovog pravnog posla duzan je kupcu isplati dvostruku kaparu iz 4. st 2. ovog predugovora. "Dissolving this pre-contract is possible only on a basis of a mutual written agreement between the Seller and the Buyer. Each party agrees that if the Buyer pulls out from the purchase, the Seller has incured damages. For that reason, should the Buyer decide not to proceed with the purchase of the property in pre-contract, the Seller has the right to keep the received deposit. If the Seller one-sidedly decides to pull out from the conclusion of the sale, it has to pay to the Buyer the double deposit from Clause 4, point 2 of this pre-contract. " Basically, the last sentence in Clause 7 is the one that gives you the right to ask for a double deposit. However, I would be very careful how the letter to the Seller is worded since since the very first sentence of this Clause allows the pre-contract to be dissolved under the mutual written agreement. I suspect that in such case you may only get your deposit back and not the double deposit. Hence, you need to get somehow in writing from the Seller that it is THEM who is pulling out of sale. I think that your letter must clearly say that you expect the purchase to go through according to the timeframes etc and let teh Seller inform you in writting that they are pulling out. Then you can ask for your double deposit back based on their letter that they are pulling out.
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