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Post by oaktreemill on Aug 16, 2015 22:02:39 GMT 1
Ok, I'll bite... tell us why you love living in Croatia? Oh, and do you try to run a business in Croatia, or in any way earn a living? I am another who also loves living in Croatia. I run a business here and earn a better living than I ever did in the UK...... Life is simple here, sometimes too simple but miles away from the fast paced life in the UK. Yeh it is corrupt but what country isn't?? Here we have a healthy life, space to breath. My daughter has space to roam, eats healthily, breathes fresh air and gets to see me more than she would if we were in the UK. She is a happy little lady with a great, healthy and wholesome childhood ahead of her. It is much safer here for her and the rest of my family to. We have the space and the means to build our home, business and life here, at our own pace. This is a beautiful country populated by friendly people who would do anything for you. I think it's great here, a view you seem not to share but then maybe things didn't work out for you the way you would have liked. This is not Britain, by a long way. A lot of you who moan about life here need to remember that. Croatia is what it is, you can always leave if it doesn't suit you.
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Post by Ribaric on Aug 17, 2015 9:42:53 GMT 1
It seems to me that those who it doesn't work out for are usually those who choose the coast, and i think that is because it is much harder to integrate into local life in a tourist environment. Those that choose the country life are more likely to fit in, and find new local friends and are accepted into the community. I've come to the same conclusion. It may have something to do with being the odd one out in an inland location opposed to be one of a mass of 'strangers' in coastal locations. People call me "our Englishman" and so I am known for that, a bit like having a wooden leg or suchlike. Learning the language is also key IMHO.
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Post by prkbrk on Aug 18, 2015 17:20:49 GMT 1
It seems to me that those who it doesn't work out for are usually those who choose the coast, and i think that is because it is much harder to integrate into local life in a tourist environment. Those that choose the country life are more likely to fit in, and find new local friends and are accepted into the community. Doesn't apply in my case........
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Post by Carol on Aug 19, 2015 9:09:05 GMT 1
Learning the language is a very good idea, but much more difficult than it sounds.
I tried to learn. I took lessons and worked hard at it. However, there were two problems:-
1. The range of materials for teaching Croatian as a foreign language was (still is?) extremely limited. So I had some text book following the lives of some teenagers in Zagreb. Unsurprisingly, they didn't use the business vocab that I needed to run a business on the coast. The book reminded me of a text book I had at school in the early 80s (but written in the 60s) for learning French. There are much better materials for learning foreign languages available now (my children are at secondary school in England so I've seen for myself how things have improved). Maybe Croatia has caught up and created some new and better text books. Honestly, though, I doubt it...!
2. Croatian people are quite insular. Sorry but that's true. If you live in the UK, you will be accustomed to hearing your native tongue spoken with different dialects, odd phraseology and often spoken in a foreign accent. You would be very pedantic to pretend you could not understand someone just because they spoke pidgin English. However, Croats who live on Brac (for example) say they have trouble understanding Croats who live on Hvar, which is just 12km away!
We had a friend in Croatia who was university educated. She was a lawyer. One day we were chatting (in English) about Omis and things to do in the area around it. As all of you probably know, Omis is located at the mouth of the Cetina river which is in a spectacular gorge. I mentioned Cetina mid-way though the conversation and she looked blank. She'd never heard of the Setina river in Omis(h). What was I talking about? Finally, it dawned on her... you mean Tsetina, not setina!
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Post by Ribaric on Aug 19, 2015 9:50:25 GMT 1
Learning the language is a very good idea, but much more difficult than it sounds. 2. Croatian people are quite insular. Sorry but that's true. If you live in the UK, you will be accustomed to hearing your native tongue spoken with different dialects, odd phraseology and often spoken in a foreign accent. You would be very pedantic to pretend you could not understand someone just because they spoke pidgin English. However, Croats who live on Brac (for example) say they have trouble understanding Croats who live on Hvar, which is just 12km away! Carol's point here is valid IMHO. I speak Hrvatski reasonably well and have a good-ish ear for clean pronunciation. However, like most speakers of a foreign language, I rarely get it perfectly right and this seems to confuse people to the extent that they give up trying to get the message. As Carol writes, English and Americans are quite accustomed to hearing our own language in a wide variety of accents and unusual constructions so we mostly get the message. No so here. It is frustrating and I often ask myself, silently, "what's so bloody hard to understand?" The sheer scale of variations to the word endings makes Croatian a very difficult proposition for those of us lacking a slavic language background. For example, there are six ways of saying 'dog' and a further six for 'cat' but the variations for dog are not the same as for a cat, effectively that's 12 variations. Add a few thousand exceptions plus any adjectives, verbs and adverbs you wish to include, each with a corresponding (yet different) ending, then you get the picture. Not for nothing do all reasonably educated Croatians speak a 2nd language. Don't let me put you off though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 3:00:23 GMT 1
ivetron...... i was commenting on someone elses post.....other than lawyers I doubt youd find anywhere in my posts I have knocked Croatians at all
as for why coastal foreigners have more issues
I never had the issues with them others have I was treated as a community member
And I understand why some would say its harder for foreigners on the coast but that was not at all true in my case
there are more Brits and Germans who may not be as popular for whatever reasons but I cannot see how my experience could have been better with local people
its the laws that killed me not a lack of acceptance.....its in your personal attitude I had a Yank`lawyer write me asking how I managed to enjoy life there as his wife was treated horribly on Hvar in the village they moved to..... maybe it was the california lawyer part I did not know what to tell him
foreigners on Hvar are mostly folks with mucho kuna (obviously property inland is far less expensive) who take part in nothing locally, sit in expensive houses with their expensive cars out front and make zero effort to be a community member and other than Hvar Town its mostly locals that live there, so they view foreigners sitting in big houses on the hill in dimmer light I heard it many times
you reap what you sow
So yes coastal people like real people that come to live and are interested in what life there is about
I helped with grape harvest,would not take pay for it, they aw me in my fields sweating and working to make it better delivered lavanda since my land rover has room to fit it and their yugos do not, I attended futbol games cheered guys from the village, I was a star at boleta even after a few cocktails, lol..... bring a dog with you the old men love it....as I said its more aboutyour attitude I believe than location
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emiz
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Post by emiz on Nov 20, 2015 3:55:11 GMT 1
Well, it's 11 years and then some since I first started this post; my friend just posted it to me on FB... a funny trip down memory lane. I'm not an Englishman in Zagreb and haven't been since 2006... I stand by a lot of what I said, perhaps not the delivery and the trolling before most people realised what trolling was... has it reached Croatia yet? but I had fun, it passed the hours away. I was a young man, angered by what I perceived as injustice, in reality they're predominately cultural divides and the realities of a country in a poor economic situation; something I maybe overlooked due to the company I kept after gaining an initial false image. Make no mistake, people there for the most part were skint, many of those divides I still care little to reason with. I haven't been back to Croatia in 8 years... friends fade away... as do good and bad memories, but I know life is much easier, much clearer in England, but you learn a lot living abroad, even if its just about people. There are still some things I miss about Croatia cultural, definitely the more civilised social aspect. The sea, some of the food, the impossibly pretentious way of celebrating all things Croatia, hell even the Sponsor girls. Zagreb at Christmas was wonderful, I loathe all things Christmas in England but aside from that vile fish soup it was a lovely time in Croatia. I do not miss the bull corruption, appalling driving and general mannerisms which to my sensitive British sensibilities are rude. That u2/ghost schizo was generally nuts, she visited Zagreb and waited outside my apartment, maybe in 2005 or 2006 and regularly called me. she was given my number and tipped off where I lived by a user on here who shall rename nameless... does he still dress like a cat and throw knives around? I had some amazing times there, and met some friends (from this forum) I'm still in touch with and shared many a drunken 5am walk home with...or 7am tram straight to work from an illegal bar... Can't imagine why the marriage went sour... Hopefully some of you found it more to your liking than I did... Probably rich and old people like I mentioned 11 years ago
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emiz
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Post by emiz on Nov 20, 2015 3:59:58 GMT 1
Ok, I'll bite... tell us why you love living in Croatia? Oh, and do you try to run a business in Croatia, or in any way earn a living? . My daughter has space to roam, eats healthily, breathes fresh air and gets to see me more than she would if we were in the UK. Is your daughter a Goat?
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emiz
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Post by emiz on Nov 20, 2015 4:03:20 GMT 1
This thread again... lol The Englishman in Zagreb (EMIZ) brought me to this forum, 7 or 8 years ago. Can I bring your out of retirement on my return?
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Post by crojoe on Nov 20, 2015 13:17:47 GMT 1
Well, it's 11 years and then some since I first started this post; my friend just posted it to me on FB... a funny trip down memory lane. I'm not an Englishman in Zagreb and haven't been since 2006... I stand by a lot of what I said, perhaps not the delivery and the trolling before most people realised what trolling was... has it reached Croatia yet? but I had fun, it passed the hours away. I was a young man, angered by what I perceived as injustice, in reality they're predominately cultural divides and the realities of a country in a poor economic situation; something I maybe overlooked due to the company I kept after gaining an initial false image. Make no mistake, people there for the most part were skint, many of those divides I still care little to reason with. I haven't been back to Croatia in 8 years... friends fade away... as do good and bad memories, but I know life is much easier, much clearer in England, but you learn a lot living abroad, even if its just about people. There are still some things I miss about Croatia cultural, definitely the more civilised social aspect. The sea, some of the food, the impossibly pretentious way of celebrating all things Croatia, hell even the Sponsor girls. Zagreb at Christmas was wonderful, I loathe all things Christmas in England but aside from that vile fish soup it was a lovely time in Croatia. I do not miss the bull corruption, appalling driving and general mannerisms which to my sensitive British sensibilities are rude. That u2/ghost schizo was generally nuts, she visited Zagreb and waited outside my apartment, maybe in 2005 or 2006 and regularly called me. she was given my number and tipped off where I lived by a user on here who shall rename nameless... does he still dress like a cat and throw knives around? I had some amazing times there, and met some friends (from this forum) I'm still in touch with and shared many a drunken 5am walk home with...or 7am tram straight to work from an illegal bar... Can't imagine why the marriage went sour... Hopefully some of you found it more to your liking than I did... Probably rich and old people like I mentioned 11 years ago Then you are really missing so much... the roads are a lot better now (at least in Zagreb), more cars on the roads, although Croats have yet to learn what the factory installed indicator stick is for in their automobiles (don't think its down to slow brain waves or one to many beers is it?), and still the yellow traffic light means go real fast. Many Croat drivers still lean to one side while driving (any reason for this guys?), just stop anywhere to let people out of their vehicle or pick them up. Corruption has matured... it's more professional, bigger amounts of money involved and it's thriving. Judicial system still in a complete mess ... no use going to court if someone swindled you. But, that said, the air is still fresh, the sea water still lovely and unmatched in the UK. One can still roam the city at night without wondering if some drunk will get verbally or physically abusive.
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Post by Carol on Nov 20, 2015 15:22:43 GMT 1
Emiz, if you are interested, my impression of how Croatia has changed since 10 years ago is that the rule of law matters somewhat. I don't think it did back in 2005. People now abide by the rules, by and large, rather than throw tantrums when others don't without the slightest perception of hypocrisy.
Most of us who aren't Croats, or married to Croats, have left. It was just too darn difficult to make a living there and for me, it was extremely wearing feeling like a foreigner all the time. I still have a business there though and go back once in a while. When, I look around, I see the improvements coming bit by bit, its just that they are slow to arrive. Croatia (maybe I should only say Dalmatia?) is now where I hoped/ expected in 2005 that it would be in 2007. My youngest had just had his first birthday when we arrived in 2005, and at the rate things are changing, I expect he will find Croatia a modern country when he visits sometime around his 30th birthday!
However, your original posts, while undoubtedly trolling, had that thread of truth running though them that made them both funny and incredibly depressing!
I encountered your ghost once in real life - around 2006.... you'd almost think she was two people: one sweet and the other extremely bitter.
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Post by Carol on Nov 20, 2015 16:26:03 GMT 1
But the sun and the sea are all you've got, Jan.
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Post by crojoe on Nov 20, 2015 16:31:54 GMT 1
Yup life is tough here ah well can't stop, sun is shining, places to go, people to see will be snowing tomorrow. LOL!
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Post by crojoe on Nov 20, 2015 16:34:00 GMT 1
But the sun and the sea are all you've got, Jan. Cheap coffee, cheap beer and pretty woman. What more does a man want when he is happily married? Ha!
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Post by Carol on Nov 20, 2015 17:33:01 GMT 1
Language was not a problem for us. 10 years ago, everyone under 30 spoke English too - so I guess its now everyone under 40. If you are hitting the 30 mark too, then it must be that people stop being willing to speak English around 10 years after leaving school.
Socially, we found things difficult. We had young children, so if we had stayed in the UK, we would've put them in nursery and made friends with the other mums. Instead we put our oldest child into Croatian nursery - vrtic - and despite the language barrier, our son made friends.
Then, a year later, after playing every day with the other children at vrtic, it was his 4th birthday and we invited his four friends to our house for his birthday party. We actually got the Croatian lady who looked after our children in the morning to do the inviting, whilst I stood beside her smiling and saying a few words in Croatian. They accepted.
Then we bought the balloons, ordered the cake, cleared the house, put up the decorations etc. etc. Not one of them turned up. The sheer horror of coming into a foreigner's house prevented them. One cancelled a hour before, another sent a text at the start of the party and the other two just didn't turn up or answer their phone.
My 4 year old child had had his life turned upside down to come to Croatia. he'd braved going into a nursery where no one spoke his language and he'd made friends. On his 4th birthday, he was up early excited about his party and his friends coming over. He sat waiting for his friends to arrive and then he watched us dismantle the party and give the food away to anyone who'd take it off our hands. The next time we organised a party for our son, he was 8 and we were living back in the UK.
That was 9 years ago and it still makes my blood boil that they could do that to an innocent child.
Did you say something about friendly or community spirit??
Now we live in Surrey. We have no family connection in Surrey and we didn't know anyone when we moved here after leaving Croatia. We've made friends. The children get invited to other children's houses and we have their friends over here. If I had a problem, there were people I'd met since moving back who would help. My neighbours watch the house if we go away and we do the same for them. People stop to chat. We feel welcome and part fo things.
In Croatia, i just felt like an object of curiosity. Not anonymous, but not worth speaking to, just someone to stare at and gossip over sometimes in front of my face.
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