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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 15:02:06 GMT 1
Hi pip
I agree fully with your last post dealing with how wrong it is to generalize regarding both negative and positive issues. About the situation in Zagreb, I have no idea, but fully respect and believe that that is your personal experiences there. Jan
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Post by ROG on Nov 19, 2005 15:28:13 GMT 1
hehehe Jan ... Only generals are allowed to generalize ... Your 3 stars will do ... Congratulations.
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 15:37:27 GMT 1
Mate
That is a lame excuse for calling a black person a n.i.g.g.#.r
Shame on you!
In fact youll be surprised to know that there were quite a few black people in Croatia.
When it was still Yugoslavia, the country was part of the neutral block - or non alligned pact.
As a part of that many Africans came to Croatia to study and it was not uncommon to see them in Zagreb.
Also people were more open then, and they did not stare or make rude or insulting comments.
This is a new phenominon, one that has come out in the last 5 - 6 years. I know it because I see it. This was never the case before.
On a cultural note, Croatia is famous for bickering, we argue and yell all the time. If you have any Croatian blood you are tempramental and rant. That is part of what it means to be a Croatian.
As for the example, justice must be fair to all, not used to persecute me, I am a valued attraction on this site, and I can on occasion say positive things.
I think some of Dave's points relate to the fact that we must speak up about what is wrong. Only be drawing attention to some issues will there be any action and progress. Sweeping things under the carpet does not help anyone, nor does ignoring the issue altogether while saying its all perfect.....
Jos nije u redu jer fali me moje 5* i Anna treba skinut ono 'slander' pored moje ime! Onda ces sve biti u redu - to ili da Anna skine tvoje male zvjezdice da i ti imas samo jedan.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 19, 2005 15:44:48 GMT 1
Hi David "If you speak the truth, showing both good and BAD sides, you're an enemy of the state." You mean having balanced views like yours, 2 good sides with Croatia and 20.000 BAD sides. ;D Jan PS! Perhaps there is a clue in the fact that you're spelling BAD with captial letters. You're missing the point jj, this site is so one-sided that I need to show the bad sides too, if you were all balanced then I could be too.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 19, 2005 15:50:26 GMT 1
truths and lies are different for everyone. who's going to be the judge of that ? 3 of us can say the drinking water here is very clean. 1 of us can say it's not. who's telling the truth ? all of us agree that corruption is widespread here all of us agree that taxes are restrictive and you don't seem to get much for them. we all agree that social welfare is not very good. most of us will agree that the violent crime rate is quite low. most of us agree on all the measurable bad things, but when we list the things that we like, only one of us will say it's all rubbish and not a worthy opinion. The moderator doesn't have the time to deal with that all the time I'm sure, so she weeds out the non relevant silly comments and things she regards as abusive or racist. Generaly she will let a thread wander off topic, and only interfere if someone takes a ridiculous turn against the traffic and tries to dominate a discussion by pronouncing their opinion as the only valid one and labeling all others as liers and hippys with hidden agendas for promoting the good side of croatia. The fact is a lot of us can see and enjoy the good side, we like to talk about it for no other reason than the fact it's something we personaly like. Having spent a lot of time reading and writing on here, I can honestly say that mostly the people on here don't mind discussing the bad things either, when the discussion is conducted in a reasonable manner. I've posted things that have been out of line and had them deleted. Fare enough, I can admit I was out of line. I even delete some of my own comments after realising that I've written something out of line. You need to be able to have some perspective on what your saying and how you're saying it. Then you can express your points without getting deleted or demoted (oooh that is funny you have to admit). Pip, you just started off badly because you simply came on to stir things up, and not to offer your thoughts in a constructive manner. I think you're ready to give it a proper go now. Lets see how you go. You can still have a bit of fun, I manage to. Gavin the fact is you and almost everybody else refuse to admit the obvious, people like mark and Glen are not objective it doesn't matter if there are 5000000 of them and 1 of me, you cannot deny it. They are not objective and you're a do-gooding hippy, but that is ok. As for the water, malienglez who used to post on here who is English speaks fluent Croatian, loves Croatia and has done more for Croatia than any foreigner on this site could ever do is sick, I wont say what he has done, but suffice to say you could never dram of emulating him, when he drinks the water, so realise that some of us talk from an objective view point.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 19, 2005 15:58:23 GMT 1
I do have some negative views, and if you look back through past posts, I have agreed with a lot of the negative things about croatia. I see no need in repeating them constantly though. There is Croam on that other site, but i think that whole site could be a sham. I don't know where you got the info that Annas husband wanted to fight emiz. It was emiz who was constantly inviting people down to the Billa carpark in novi zagreb at 3am. He even invited me down there, I said I would meet him on the main square if he wanted, but he declined to reveal himself in a public place. Probably because he was pretending to be someone he wasn't the whole time, which he later admitted. Gavin nobody admitted that, that is you telling outright lies as usual and rewriting history, he told me you threatend him first and I will tell you, if you did so you're not a clever as you think you are. I think you have a feeling of invicibility in Croatia gavin, well I will tell you, you're not ricj enough and you don't have friends who are powerful enough for that feeling. Caveman attitude? yup, but this is Croatia and cavemen rule.
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Post by davidzg on Nov 19, 2005 16:00:19 GMT 1
Pipo ... I am not foreigner, and I look very "Croatian" ;D ... But between such people, I am kind of foreigner too, and mostly treated as "suspicious one". Actually it is funny when you face them as Croat (what I am - one of few who doesn't need anything "to prove it"), and then see what a bunch of dirt and basically fears stand behind this "masks made of arrogance". You're probably in the same situation as my wife, she is 100% Croatian in body and 0% Croatian in mind. She often has problems because she is not lazy, she wants to do well, she has lived arboad and she talks to people with respect in her work place. Jealousy rules!
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 16:02:26 GMT 1
Hegel wrote about the dialectic.
He stated (then Marx used it) that there is an established idea, the THESIS.
Then another idea comes along and challenges the established view point, it opposes it and it is called the ANTI-THESIS.
They two though streams fight it out and then you have SYNTHESIS, and that is progress.
The dialectic can be seen throughout history, in nature, in technology and in human (political and cultural and biological) evolution.
On this site, if we only allow the THESIS and deny the ANTI-THESIS then we will never have any progress.
If we, on this site cannot do it, then what hope does Croatia have of doing it? That is why on here we must have the space and freedom to say what we think and why the moderator must be neutral rather than proactive on only one side of the argument.
OK, end of the philosophy lesson for today.
'be pip, be cool'
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Post by Anna on Nov 19, 2005 16:43:51 GMT 1
What you need is a members area where we can have a good jolly argument, without rudeness, but allowing freedom to be intellectually spicy. Without rudeness! Goodness, what a fantastic idea! Pipastro, do you have a short memory? Can you not even remember the delightful conversations you and Croam engaged in yesterday and over the past few days? I think "childish banter and insults" covers it quite well. Sometimes giving useful information (which I will admit you do) doesn't give you license to post all sorts of rubbish as well. Many discussions here evolve into others. A discussion is alive and develops and adapts, being so restrictive is stifling and dulls the discussion. Croatia has as many pluses and it has minuses. You cant be objective and expect there to be only positive commentary. Potential visitors and investors need to know the truth, and you have to trust that they have enough intelligence to disseminate what the truth is in the chats. Yep, if only everyone knew the temperature of your fridge! How helpful! It is very neat to just package everything under the title "the truth", as if this is one universally global thing and means the same for everything. And you say you didn't come on here to stir! Again, can you not remember you very first post? Whether it was intended to be funny or not, I am very sure you knew it would provoke. So why don't you make a 'free for all debate' area and then we are happy and you are happy. Readers and other people will also be happy, as they don't need to read our chats unless they specifically want to or want to join in. Because this doesn't work. A free for all debate area will turn into just that, with insults and random ramblings flying in left, right and centre. It would then degenerate into something quite pathetic...and then what's the point of contributing to that? As I mentioned to...another poster...why not start your own forum? You can have your own rules there! You can even give me a label on my profile! I am very honoured that you came on this site to spice things up, how awfully kind of you. It is very exciting for you, davidzg, croam, gav and a few others (plus me as moderator of course) to have such excitement in our lives! You yourself said that people are going to weed out things that they don't want to read. I dare say that they are. BTW, does no one work? Have lives? Do something on weekends? Everyone seems to be on here a lot more than me! David, Pipastro, how's your conversation flowing on MSN?
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 16:45:29 GMT 1
I do have some negative views, and if you look back through past posts, I have agreed with a lot of the negative things about croatia. I see no need in repeating them constantly though. There is Croam on that other site, but i think that whole site could be a sham. I don't know where you got the info that Annas husband wanted to fight emiz. It was emiz who was constantly inviting people down to the Billa carpark in novi zagreb at 3am. He even invited me down there, I said I would meet him on the main square if he wanted, but he declined to reveal himself in a public place. Probably because he was pretending to be someone he wasn't the whole time, which he later admitted. Gavin nobody admitted that, that is you telling outright lies as usual and rewriting history, he told me you threatend him first and I will tell you, if you did so you're not a clever as you think you are. I think you have a feeling of invicibility in Croatia gavin, well I will tell you, you're not ricj enough and you don't have friends who are powerful enough for that feeling. Caveman attitude? yup, but this is Croatia and cavemen rule. There you go again David, you just can't control yourself. Whilst everyone else is now being reasonable, you continue to post absolute crap ! Go back through the posts and show me where I threatened Emiz ? He was calling me a beggar and I explained what kind of entertainer I am, and that I make people happy for a living. I then wrote that 'if you were to meet me, you wouldn't leave a very happy chappy' simply meaning that what I would say to him would not make him happy.Hardly a threat. Its all there to read, but you would rather make crap up. You can also read here where he invited me down to the Billa carpark at 3am. He had made similar threats to other people on these boards. Wanting to meet people in carparks at 3am has only one clear meaning, and it's definaely a threating one. Why is it that you're the only one on here that can't see reason ? Emiz pretended to be an englishman from the north of england, who had moved here and bought a house in novi zagreb, and had a croatian wife. He also said he was a sales representative who worked for a croatian firm. Sound familiar to you ? Later he stated that he was in fact croatian, and that he actually owned a business here that employed several people, some of them foriegners. Which are we to believe ? You told me in person that you were originaly Emiz, but later you gave your user name for your boss to use. You also said that this happened before I started posting on here. Was that true, or a lie ? So, he not only took over your user name, but he took on your background as well. Very interesting. It's all still there to read, and I still have the pms he sent to me with his threats to set the taxation police onto me. That was a laugh ! So far then, you are the only one who has admitted to being emiz, and if there is someone else who was emiz, so far they haven't come forth to say so, and nobody has offered up any proof to back up the claim. Emiz disappeared from these boards shortly before you started posting. You're standing on thin ice, and grasping for straws while the rest of us get on with having constructive exchanges. Check your facts before you come out and call me a lier next time, because that is one thing I won't stand for from someone who has been involved with the biggest deception on this site. On another note, please list these comments where I have refused to admit the obvious. What were the topics? Were they things that are only obvious to you like so many other things, or are they obvious to everybody? If you can make a list of 5 I would be impressed. What exactly are the negative sides of croatia that you don't think I agree with ? If you wish to continue calling me a hippy, fine with me. I shall continue calling you a winging chav.
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Post by Anna on Nov 19, 2005 16:56:13 GMT 1
Resorting to insults - all too easy. Please refrain.
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Post by gmh on Nov 19, 2005 17:02:34 GMT 1
Good to see you didn't deny the truth this time. I don't care what you label yourself, others will always have a worse one for you. How can someone who is constantly claiming how rich he is, also claim that he is so much more in touch with the average croatian than the rest of us ? Very odd.
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 17:09:13 GMT 1
Hi David
"You're missing the point jj", thanks God, I've been worried that I might understand your point ;D it's still hope for me then. Jan ;D
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Post by janjohansen on Nov 19, 2005 17:23:49 GMT 1
Hi ROG
"hehehe Jan ... Only generals are allowed to generalize ... Your 3 stars will do ... Congratulations"
Good one ROG, just imagine when I get the 4th one ;D Jan
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Post by pipastro on Nov 19, 2005 17:38:08 GMT 1
Anna I have the following important points to make: * Its the weekend and England are playing Rugby! Yet people are still loggin on! * You see the attraction that I bring on here?! I am a star! * I give you content, and my 5 star status brings you a much better audience than you would otherwise have. * With regarding to the insults, Id like to point out that I never used rude swear words, I wrote things with an ambigous tone, so that croam would get the message but so that others would not get offended. * I didnt say anything about croams drug use or alcohol consumption that he didnt say or boast himself * Regardless of the above, many people found it funny as I am sure you did too, even though you wont admit it in front of me * Yes my first post was a bit spicey, but croams anti slovenian reaction set the tone. All I did then was respond to his taunts. You responded to mine, but i cant take your stars away! * You defend the pro cro guys much more than the non pro cros. It nice living in London and working and doing business there. Here in Cro its much more difficult, terrible in fact. Do you want just nice words for advertising or the truth? * On this thread I have been accurate and I have not been rude while at the same time standing up for what I think is right. This thread has had a lot of interest and that prooves my point. People like my posts, even if they dont like them. * OK The 'Foul Smell In the Air' was rubbish, but I dont think that my other non-croam posts were rubbish. The chat about the temprature on Korcula and in Zagreb (or whatever it was) was so pointless. I was just making an example how pointless it is, writing that my fridge is 3.c was just a way to say that - without insults or rude words. That type of posting will drive visitors away. If you want to see the temp go to the HRT website or the BBC. * You say: "It is very neat to just package everything under the title "the truth", as if this is one universally global thing and means the same for everything." Well Anna, I dont mean to sound intellectually superior but, philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle have done that for over a thousand years. If we dont look for the truth what are we looking for? Mediocracy? Decadency? The truth is essential in life - from maths to science to logic to the whole universe. Now before you reduce me to becoming verbose, please give me my stars back and remove the slanderous remarks next to my name. If I did that to you - youd ban me
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