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Post by prkbrk on Oct 29, 2008 17:53:21 GMT 1
Asking price is way too much if you were asking me and if you say the smaller will be sold for 110k, then why have you got it on the site as 100k?  |
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Post by mambo on Oct 29, 2008 18:14:59 GMT 1
100,000 for 45 m2 is a bargain ?
In that case I would like to know what your definition of expensive is ?
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Post by 4thlion on Oct 30, 2008 10:18:27 GMT 1
Oh mambo, relax, have a peace pipe.
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Post by rijekafan on Oct 31, 2008 13:30:33 GMT 1
100,000 for 45 m2 is a bargain ? In that case I would like to know what your definition of expensive is ? A bargain property is something that is much cheaper than a comparable property in a comparable location. |
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Post by rijekafan on Oct 31, 2008 13:35:26 GMT 1
I did mention in my initial post that you should look at prices on Mali Losinj and compare them with what I am offering. So maybe that should have been done before Mambo for instance made his remarks.
I will probably will delete this post as I have no desire to get into an argument with people who make unpleasant remarks without checking the facts
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Post by mambo on Oct 31, 2008 16:35:45 GMT 1
Rijekafan,
I know Mali Losinj inside out and I also know where to find your apartments.
I don't have a problem when you want to make a nice profit on your apartments, but..............just say so, be honest about it. Don't make it sound like you are willing to sell it with a loss, because you are not.
Mali Losinj and basically the island of Losinj are beautiful places, I have been there on holiday many years in a row and I still love the island. It is quiet, no mass tourism, short tourist season, but that is also exactly the problem with asking high prices in Mali Losinj.
The whole season on Losinj is perhaps 4 weeks and that is it. I know this for a fact since I deliver ice to Losinj all summer long and I know exactly when the tourists are there and when they are not.
Renting out the property for 5 months in a row will therefore not be an option. I think you can consider yourself lucky if you can rent it (every year) for 6 weeks. I was in Losinj in September and trust me, a blind horse could not have hit anyone, the town was empty. The weather was nice however.
Normally the price of a property is also determined by the economical value and I think we can safely say that you will not be able to pay the mortgage with the rent you receive every year. In that light I don't consider 2200 euro/m2 a bargain. Especially not when I can find apartments in Baderna (near Porec) for 1100 - 1700 euro for a square meter, which also includes a communal pool for every apartment building.
Again, it is fine with me if you want to make a profit, after all that is why you are in the business, but please..........be honest about it. Change the tactic of making claims which are simply not true.
Why not say: Beautiful apartment for sale in Mali Losinj, price: 100,000 euro.
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Post by rijekafan on Oct 31, 2008 18:36:08 GMT 1
So Mambo now you are accusing me of dishonesty. You really are are charming man.
You have no idea what I have paid and what my costs are so how do you know if I am making a profit?
In fact I took what locals regarded as a reasonable price and discounted it heavily. I am trying to sell both flats, the one flat is only an option and not a preferable to me. Post etazirinje the buyer will likely end up with around 110 m2 total on the title. The flats are rented out year round for at what I regard as a good price.
You cannot compare Porec and Mali Losinj. For someone who claims to be an expert on the local real estate market you betray a great deal of ignorance. There seems t be a tendency to shoot first and not ask questions later.
I
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Post by mambo on Oct 31, 2008 18:58:38 GMT 1
Rijekafan,
I am not accusing you of dishonesty at all, but if you want to try to tell us that you spent 2200 euro per square meter in construction cost...........perhaps you should have found a different building company.
Like I said, if you want to make a nice profit...........by all means, do so. After all, that is why you built them in the first place (I don't think you built them for charity), but why is it so hard to simply say so ?
Why do you have to post an advertisement here and call it a 'bargain' ?
And what the locals think is reasonable has of course nothing to do with real market value. If you work in the real estate business you know this as well. If it was up to them every house would be worth one million euro.
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Post by Carol on Oct 31, 2008 20:54:03 GMT 1
2200 euro per square meter in construction cost....
I think you are forgetting to count the purchase cost, agency fees, legal fees, accounting fees, architect fees, application fees, cost of borrowing, RETT, possibly PDV on sale price and probably a few others not in this list.
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Post by rijekafan on Nov 1, 2008 6:34:14 GMT 1
As usual Carol you are spot on. There is also travel and accomodation costs and Aussie interest rates of 10% Of course its not what I paid that matters but what I can sell for.
I believe that because I want to unload them quickly they are being sacrificed and I believe a patient European based investor could make money out of the development. My accountant has told me I am an idiot trying to sell them before the etazirinje but the etazirinje should go through fairly soon and the price will go up. Of course at the moment credit is scarce so they will probably sit there for a while until credit is more freely available.
I will delete my posts when I get home tomorrow as it was a mistake to post the the thread in the first place.
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Post by darcy on Nov 1, 2008 9:07:48 GMT 1
I am sorry you are selling (I am selling as well), but if you need an advise where to refinance 10% loan let me know, but please pick up the currency first (and what is the asset against you are borrowing). All I know about Aussie banks is they usually borrowed in the US and Japan and now you are paying their mistakes with outrageous interest because of their poorly hedged exchange rate against the yen and .the dollar
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Post by mambo on Nov 1, 2008 21:49:09 GMT 1
Carol & Rijekafan,
I am not forgetting these cost at all. Like I said, if you want to claim you spent 2200 euro/m2 you have obviously done something wrong.
Most apartments here are built for 500 (cheap version), 750 (medium) or 1000 euro (luxury) per square meter. This includes all the cost (buying the land, preparation, measuring, financing, architect, you name it).
But again, I have no problem if you want to make a nice profit, but just don't make it sound like you are losing money on the whole thing when you sell for 2200 euro/m2. Any buyer can calculate (I hope) and for them being honest is probably more important than any other argument you may have.
When buyers get the impression you want to take them to the cleaners and you are just smooth talking them into spending way too much they will most likely find out.
Some sellers here in Istria really try to go for an Oscar each time they take a potential buyer to a property. I have gone to view a lot of properties myself (simply to find out what they were trying to sell) and just the way they were talking would already turn me away if I ever wanted to buy something.
And to be honest, the BS about 'the property will go up in value' is always made by someone who cannot prove this claim. What evidence does this person have that the value of the property will rise dramatically each year ?
On what does he base this assumption ?
Does he have any tourist figures (which we don't have or know about) with which he can prove his claim ?
A couple of years ago we heard the same BS in Istria and all these years I have been saying Istria is a bubble about to burst, prices would go down instead of up. And guess what..........prices are going down and not up. It is a simple matter of looking at the world economy and adding one plus one.
Losinj tourism has infact been on the way back the last few years and with the current credit crisis I honest to g*o*d don't see a lot of people buying apartments in non-growth zones.
And since I love Losinj as a destination I hope it will stay the way it is.
Anyway, I hope for you that you can sell these apartments. Good luck.
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Post by Carol on Nov 2, 2008 10:30:17 GMT 1
What you write about the build prices and what they include is simply not true Mambo. I really do not know where you get your facts from. You say the budget version can be done all-in for €500/m2. Please can you explain how this figure breaks down so that the developer can break even on a sale of €500/m2?
€x Purchase Price of Land
€x RETT on Purchase
€x Brokerage fees on purchase
€x Legal fees on purchase
€x Architects fees
€x Planning application fees
€x Bringing water
€x Bringing electricty
€x Building materials
€x Finishing materials (basic)
€x Labour costs
€x Project Management
€x Accounting fees
€x Communal taxes
€x Etaziranje cost (incl Geometer)
€x PDV due on sale price
€x Bank interest charges on loan / loss of bank interest on savings
€500 TOTAL
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Post by darcy on Nov 2, 2008 11:07:07 GMT 1
Carol is absolutelly right - you are not able to build anything in Croatia for 500 EUR/m2. In the US, maybe. Croatian builders are not productive and the way they build the houses is far more expensive.
Margin for flats is cca 35%, add the red tape to get all papers and you get 2K per m2.
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Post by mambo on Nov 2, 2008 12:54:18 GMT 1
Carol,
Perhaps you should go and talk to some builders and not just listen to your own ideas. Last year I was thinking about building a 150 m2 house with a pool (on 530 m2 of land) in the neighborhood of Trogir, with the idea of renting it out to tourists (in combination with flights into Split).
We went through the whole process of cost calculation, finding a builder, architect, mortgage application (the 2 year version) etc.
Including the land (which was offered for 60 euro/m2) we roughly came to the prices above. Perhaps you are thinking now that basic means luxury...........no it doesn't. But as an example I can tell you that you don't need a 5000 euro kitchen if you can build the whole thing from concrete, stone and tiles for less than 500 euro and for use by tourists it is actually even better (they cannot destroy it). In the Caribbean we built many kitchens like this, they are ideal in hot temperatures.
If you want to make it more luxurious your price per m2 will rise and then you get into the 750 to 1000 euro range.
A friend of mine (from Zagreb) recently completed 4 apartments near Sibenik and he spent a little less than 750 euro/m2.
Sure, if you go to a building company and give them a open account you will be spending a hell of a lot more, but in that case you should not be building it yourself.
So do me a favor and stop pretending that it is impossible to build for these prices. Especially when we can even build in Holland for these prices, where you don't pay 100 Kuna/hr (or less) for labor.
If a construction company from Zagreb can build here in Baderna, Istria (12 km from the coast), can construct nice apartments, complete with swimming pools, parking lots, the whole works and offer that in a price range 1100 to 1700 euro/m2 you two are going to tell me that this company does not make a profit ?
You also still believe in Santa Claus and the incredible snowman ?
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