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Post by zvekov on Oct 14, 2009 15:08:44 GMT 1
i hear all the fanfair having been an avid reader of this forum now for quite some time and i am clear now it seems Croatia may just be a lifestyle destination. And maybe 10, 15 years down the line money can be made.
I just wanted to garner opinion on this. In real estate investments in this country, after paying all the taxes, the excessive paperwork, the odd local pricings of services, can anyone recount any reasonable experiences in any part of the croatian coast where they've made reasonable money cash on cash also considering time spent and have made a killing in real estate?.
I am of the opposite opinion but i will be delighted to hear of others experiences more rewarding experiences.
To make it easier lets' think pre-2008.
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Post by happy on Oct 14, 2009 15:32:48 GMT 1
I heard that a neighbor of one of my friend's cousins sold his ruin to a rich Russian for a million Euro.
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Post by zvekov on Oct 14, 2009 15:36:14 GMT 1
exactly my point. I'm talking of round trip. Come in to the casino with money and leave with more.. i think those stories are v v hard to find... apart from people selling what was bequeathed ( sorry an investment does not include being born by the right family)
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Post by cropal on Oct 14, 2009 23:39:06 GMT 1
I have met a number of people who have been happy with their investments in Croatia. They bought, renovated and/or used and sold their properties and each has made a profit - some more substantial than others - but all made a profit. All bought before 2008.
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Post by mambo on Oct 15, 2009 1:38:53 GMT 1
I have not met a single person (here in Istria) who has bought and sold property with a substantial profit. In fact I know several people who are trying to sell their houses (they are basically fed up with Croatia) and they cannot find any buyers at all.
I guess that the South (Dalmatia, the islands) has better opportunities for real estate, but Istria is as dead as can be.
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Post by ray51 on Oct 15, 2009 8:22:59 GMT 1
Now that's interesting to learn , Mambo , from someone who actually lives there ! I usually get ridiculed ( when in Zagreb ) , for having failed to invest in Istrian real estate , a few years ago ; according to those sources , "istrian houses have all doubled and trebled in market value in the last 5-6 years and the demand exceeds supply" ; I must add , however , that such comments come from the kind of people who have never renovated a wreck , nor built a villa , so : maybe it's easy for them to be so clever and critical of a ( potential ) buyer acting over-cautious ?
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Post by Ribaric on Oct 15, 2009 8:56:47 GMT 1
Madgolfer will probably correct me on this but those who bought out of town places, particularly run down vikendicas or wine houses, have all done very well - is my limited experience. However, the in-town housing estate places (like mine ) have fallen in value. This appears to be more about the lack of opportunity to get a mortgage than a preceived drop in value. Foreign buyers, 99% of whom buy countryside places, have better finance options and such places here are still ultra-cheap. Some of us are buying in order to get out of cash, particularly sterling.
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Post by 3lions on Oct 15, 2009 10:38:22 GMT 1
I have not met a single person (here in Istria) who has bought and sold property with a substantial profit. In fact I know several people who are trying to sell their houses (they are basically fed up with Croatia) and they cannot find any buyers at all. I guess that the South (Dalmatia, the islands) has better opportunities for real estate, but Istria is as dead as can be. ..erh house prices have gone up in Istria quite a lot. I mean it depends on the time scale. Say over 10 years and then its substantial. If you are talking about the next 10 years then no I wouldn't be so sure. Same old story, unless you carry out a lot the work yourself, then you are relying on the market. Haven't you heard of Sarah Beeny? She does all this stuff in the UK. You have to know what you are doing or she slaps you down.
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Post by mambo on Oct 15, 2009 11:22:38 GMT 1
It is true that a lot of people have made a profit, but they are the ones which had the land, built the houses/apartments and sold them to foreigners who had no clue about the value of houses.
Most of the foreigners who bought houses/apartments/ruins have not been able to sell these with a substantial profit.............if they have been able to sell them at all. Some have sold again, but in the end made a few thousand euro profit and if you ask me that is not really worth the hassle.
The people who bought the ruins and restored them have seen their properties rise in value, but that is also normal when you dump in a lot of money to make the place liveable. Some of them have been trying to sell their properties for at least a few years, but cannot find buyers at all. It is like Carol already pointed out. Everyone who was building and selling pre-2006 (mostly Croatians) have been able to make a profit, but also there lots of people have lost fortunes because the apartments were not moving too fast and the double mortgage payments simply ate their profit.
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Post by 3lions on Oct 15, 2009 11:39:06 GMT 1
...well Ok agreed
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Post by ray51 on Oct 15, 2009 12:00:58 GMT 1
Profit and Loss accounting is one of the things , which not many understand correctly ; so , one might have bought , renovated and sold - or bought the land and built on it ...taking into account the bank interest over the years past , own hassle , time and/or labour , assorted other expenditure and many other factors ...I'd say it's nice to get out with an end-gain ( if that's the plan ) , which however does not neccessarily mean that there was an actual "profit" , in accounting terms ?
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Post by 3lions on Oct 15, 2009 13:19:37 GMT 1
good point ray!...lets face it, no one goes around saying how many thousands they lost, its all how much they made and how clever they are.
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Post by Madgolfer on Oct 15, 2009 14:03:25 GMT 1
"Madgolfer will probably correct me on this but those who bought out of town places, particularly run down vikendicas or wine houses, have all done very well."
True up this way Rib, but I think that Zvekovs' post was referring to the coastal regions, so I have no idea about those areas.
Leaving Vrbovec town centre aside, even recently (2008/9) some of our clients have (unfortunately) needed to sell properties bought pre 2008 and have still cleared a profit.
"Substantial" is perhaps not a word I would use, but very few have actually lost money, only those that needed to sell very quickly, eg inside a month or two.
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Post by Madgolfer on Oct 15, 2009 14:12:28 GMT 1
Re Zvekov's post;
"considering time spent and have made a killing in real estate?."
Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but that sort of comment, approach, view etc of how to make money in real estate is maybe not the right way to put it!
Make a decent profit naturally, but the word "killing" kind of sums up too many peoples attitude and is certainly not the way to go if you are in the business professionally, for the long term and looking to build a decent reputation.
As far as "time spent" is concerned, then of course those people that can do a lot of the work themselves will make the higher cash profit in the end. A lot of blood sweat and tears goes into renovating a property mind you, so it's not for the feint hearted.
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Post by zvekov on Oct 15, 2009 15:11:13 GMT 1
Sadly madgolfer, you just reinforced my point.. Long term over 10 years... maybe! a profit can be eked out. But add in time spent to deal with all the issues and you will really struggle.
Compare that to a liquid market like the UK, win or lose you can quickly establish where you stand and with little effort, the market will clearly tell you.
Investment is actually just that, you sign put in the cash, and let that work for you, not standing in one municipal office line waiting for procedures to finish to the the next; that is work and one needs to be paid for that. Sorry!! not trying to redefine terms, but i kind of sense similar to mambo it is very very tough out here in Croatia with the asset class of real estate.
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