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Post by larry1 on Apr 25, 2011 9:29:47 GMT 1
Hello
We are foreign owners using a local lady to clean and oversee our house in Croatia and have trusted her to advise when she needs to do extra work for which we have always paid
Over the last year however we have been stung by some fairly hefty 'extra' bills which we are unable to prove are valid or not from afar
My questions are:
What are usual hourly rates for cleaning. and overseeing (we pay 55kn/hour plus 10 euros per laundry wash -1 set of bedding)
Does anyone know of launderettes in Nth Istria as I believe this may work out cheaper
Thanks
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Post by crojoe on Apr 25, 2011 10:06:23 GMT 1
Hello We are foreign owners using a local lady to clean and oversee our house in Croatia and have trusted her to advise when she needs to do extra work for which we have always paid Over the last year however we have been stung by some fairly hefty 'extra' bills which we are unable to prove are valid or not from afar My questions are: What are usual hourly rates for cleaning. and overseeing (we pay 55kn/hour plus 10 euros per laundry wash -1 set of bedding) Does anyone know of launderettes in Nth Istria as I believe this may work out cheaper Thanks Well, someone just got relieved of 1.6 million because of managing far away, and it was to Croatian partners. Not to say that all Croatians are crooks, as there are plenty of honest Croatians, plus we have our own crooks in the West, but what are you doing? Is she running your house, the house keeper, living in it, cleaning it daily or just when you go there? It's a bit difficult to understand what you’re asking. 55 Kuna plus 10 Euro's (73 Kuna) per hour for cleaning house and some sheets sounds steep. You can't pay Western salaries, and even in the West you don't pay such prices unless you've got money to burn. The typical daily pay (8 hours of work) in Croatia is about 130 Kuna to 150 Kuna. If she's your building manager and takes care of guests then that’s another story, but even then you should just make a set contract per month. But as soon as you start noticing some funny amounts of money being charged, maybe it's time to pay an unexpected visit to see what’s going on. Who knows, worse case scenario is your place is being used while your away, or maybe (being positive) you have the best house cleaner in Croatia and she is going a smashing job and you have nothing to worry about...., but as the ol saying goes, when in doubt.. Don’t! Don't just think all is fine because you’re "far away". Just step very softly as some people have found their house emptied out after accusing their workers of theft. You have very little chance of any court case if trouble happens. Sorry it sounds so extreme, but there are plenty of crazy stories of foreigners getting taken for a ride. All the best in your efforts. |
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Post by justapixel on Apr 25, 2011 11:24:34 GMT 1
In Zagreb, cleaning ladies are paid 30-40 kn/hour. I don't know anything about laundry prices, but 10€ sounds like too much for that task. I don't recall seeing a launderette in Croatia. Ever. crojoe - 150 kn/day is too low. Average salary in Croatia is 5300 kn, which translates to 240 kn/day (350 kn gross). Of course, menial cleaning will be paid below average wage, but cost of work doesn't vary that much here. . |
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Post by crojoe on Apr 25, 2011 12:06:17 GMT 1
In Zagreb, cleaning ladies are paid 30-40 kn/hour. I don't know anything about laundry prices, but 10€ sounds like too much for that task. I don't recall seeing a launderette in Croatia. Ever. crojoe - 150 kn/day is too low. Average salary in Croatia is 5300 kn, which translates to 240 kn/day (350 kn gross). Of course, menial cleaning will be paid below average wage, but cost of work doesn't vary that much here. . Yes, average in the papers and political numbers, but from my experience of hiring people here, in reality it is lower for manual labours, house cleaners, hostess work, and similar work. I know people who get paid only 3000 to 3500 max a month. Sure, if you add taxes, health insurance then yes they seem to make more, but that’s not really money in the bank. For those that work in the “grey”, then we all know the real price. On average I seem to see this trend (just my opinion): 150 Kn x 4 days = 600 kn x 4 weeks = 2400 kn (students and young people) 180 kn x 4 days = 720 kn x 4 weeks = 2880 kn 200 kn x 4 days = 800 kn x 4 weeks = 3200 kn (which is what I would say is the real average for adult labours or 8 hours of work) Students working up to 8 hour shifts can get paid 18 to 20 Kuna an hour. 8 hours = 144 kn to160 Kn (according to their legal pricelist available from student work centres). I was paying some workers 200 kn for some work over C'mas and my Croatian friends said I was paying above the "real" average. In reality it's an employer’s world today, with loads of people desperate for work. No doubt those that work in blue collar jobs get more, managers and bosses, but are they the average working person? |
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Post by justapixel on Apr 25, 2011 13:36:34 GMT 1
Yes, average in the papers and political numbers, but from my experience of hiring people here, in reality it is lower for manual labours, house cleaners, hostess work, and similar work. I know people who get paid only 3000 to 3500 max a month. Sure, if you add taxes, health insurance then yes they seem to make more, but that’s not really money in the bank. For those that work in the “grey”, then we all know the real price. I often encounter the statement that the official average salary is not real based on reality because the speaker doesn't know anyone with salary larger than 4 or 5 thousands. Then again, essentially everyone I know earns much more than average and I still have no intention of stating that average salary is 7000. You can engineer inconsistently defined numbers such as crime rate or the number of unemployed persons, but hard numbers such as average salary are untouchable, especially when you have two decades of consistent statistics. Also, grey economy (such as cleaning ladies' salaries) is never listed in the statistics and can only add to overall income. On average I seem to see this trend (just my opinion): 150 Kn x 4 days = 600 kn x 4 weeks = 2400 kn (students and young people) 180 kn x 4 days = 720 kn x 4 weeks = 2880 kn 200 kn x 4 days = 800 kn x 4 weeks = 3200 kn (which is what I would say is the real average for adult labours or 8 hours of work) Students working up to 8 hour shifts can get paid 18 to 20 Kuna an hour. 8 hours = 144 kn to160 Kn (according to their legal pricelist available from student work centres). I was paying some workers 200 kn for some work over C'mas and my Croatian friends said I was paying above the "real" average. In reality it's an employer’s world today, with loads of people desperate for work. No doubt those that work in blue collar jobs get more, managers and bosses, but are they the average working person? 10 years ago, when average salary was far lower, I was working part time as a student and was paid 22 kn/hour. I also got a hefty tax refund on top of that. Occasionally, I taught kids maths for 40 kn/hour. Back then, manual labor over SC (Student Center) was paid 12-20kn/hour. These days all the wages should be 50-60% higher. Then again, I should take into account very harsh circumstances in the job market we have presently. I was shortly unemployed two months ago and observed that average offered salary is 10-20% lower than 2 years ago and number of people competing for a work position is far higher. . |
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Post by ray51 on Apr 25, 2011 14:36:42 GMT 1
In Zagreb, cleaning ladies are paid 30-40 kn/hour. I don't know anything about laundry prices, but 10€ sounds like too much for that task. I don't recall seeing a launderette in Croatia. Ever. . Surely , that's a bit odd ( to be polite ) ? Excellent , reliable , trustworthy Phillipinnas , Polish , Moroccan girls and others get paid up to 7 Euros/hr "brutto" for such jobs , in ( your future ) Capital of EUrope ; once the ( allowed ) tax-benefits are re-claimed , this works out to 5,20- 5,40 Euros/hour , max.- i.e. below 40 HR-Kunas , but , look , here we'talking NW EUrope , not the Balkans...for which , geographical differences , I think , an allowance should be made ? Nowadays , I use a launderette , actually : "laundrimat" , as it is called here : weekly ! For any number of years , earlier , having been brought up in HR ( and we always had a washing machine at home/s , the the last 50 yrs of the life I can remember , wherever I lived ) I couldn't possibly begin to comprehend : why would anyone go to such an odd set-up ( of which there are dozens , around every corner here ) - unless they were paupers , or so I thought , then ( silly ! ) ? But , having met some reasonable , affluent people in one , now I finally learned : 'cos it IS a clean , well-organised , efficient , pleasant , well-ordered , peaceful place ( much better than any church , IMHO , and delivers clearly superior results ! ) ; a 7 kg of wash costs 3 EUros , everything is faboulosly spotless and tidy ( making my domestic wash-machine experiences : a memory of distant past ! ) . And , for the 30-45 mins , while the clothes go 'round , you can zip out , for a drink , or b'fast , or a walk with your dog , get a paper , whatever...Bliss ! |
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Post by justapixel on Apr 25, 2011 15:26:13 GMT 1
Surely , that's a bit odd ( to be polite ) ? Excellent , reliable , trustworthy Phillipinnas , Polish , Moroccan girls and others get paid up to 7 Euros/hr "brutto" for such jobs , in ( your future ) Capital of EUrope ; once the ( allowed ) tax-benefits are re-claimed , this works out to 5,20- 5,40 Euros/hour , max.- i.e. below 40 HR-Kunas , but , look , here we'talking NW EUrope , not the Balkans...for which , geographical differences , I think , an allowance should be made ? If there were no cheap imported manual labor, I'm pretty sure Belgians themselves would be doing the same job for substantially higher price. Also, the prices I cited are in Zagreb, in Slavonia they would be lower because of the state of local economy. I don't know how much cheaper the prices would be in Istria or Dalmatia. . |
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Post by ray51 on Apr 25, 2011 15:38:22 GMT 1
Or , maybe NOT ? maybe you are just soooo wrooong ?
( Like : most of the Croats , IMHO ? )
Maybe , just maybe : they are not only just "cheap imported manual labour" as you dare to allege here ?
Instead : maybe they are just ordinary , normal , human beings ( even if under-educated ) , to whom we all should pay a certain respect ( since they aspire to a better existence , for which they are prepared to work hard , even if "on the cheap" , wherever ) ?
Not everyone on this our Earth , sits on their bum/s , expecting the Government to provide , see ?
Certainly , they ( the foreigneirs here ) are not as big-headed as the most Croats I ever met ? ...
( And : quite on which grounds , pray ? as I have discussed , in many a bar on at least 4-5 continents , should the Croats be quite so arrogant ? Davor Shuker's team , Goran Ivanisevic @wimbledon SW19 , which other achievement/s ? )
Maybe the foreigners/poor labourers here are only just grateful , as I know my ( domestic ) Phillipina cleaners are , and my ( Office ) Morrocan ones , to be permitted to live and manage in the 1st world , safe , peaceful , excellent medical arrangements , certain assured social benefits , cheap-o flights , not all that much hassle ( compared to : where they come from ) ...
and where , in this exploitative capitalist 1st world , for less than 1 hour of unqualified labour-wages ,
they can buy a pair of jeans ( sometimes : 2 pairs , even = good Discounts , see ? ) in the local high street ,
or 3 X 2-EUro T-shirts at C & A ,
or 2 double cheeseburgers , with medium chips and Cokes at nearby Mc D's ?
And : NO , we Certainly don't "import" them ;
instead , THEY FIGHT , tooth & nail , by hook and by crook , anywhichway : to get in here , especially the Polish , the Maghreb ones , the Africans , the Indians/Pakistanis/Bangla Deshis/SriLankans , Phillipinoes , South Americans ...
( never heard of a recent case yet , of any of them , bending-over-backwards and cheating on paperwork and bribing , to get to live in Zagreb ? )
Depends , who's judging , I think , and from what levels ?
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Post by justapixel on Apr 25, 2011 17:54:25 GMT 1
Or , maybe NOT ? Maybe , just maybe : they are not only just "cheap imported manual labour" as you allege ? Instead : maybe they are just ordinary , normal , human beings ( even if under-educated ) , to whom we all should pay a certain respect ( since they aspire to a better existence , for which they are prepared to work hard , even if "on the cheap" , wherever ) ? Certainly , they are not as big-headed as the most Croats I ever met ? From economic standpoint, they are exactly: 1. cheap 2. imported 3. manual and 4. labor. They are also human, but obviously that doesn't entitle them to get minimum Belgian hourly wage of 8€. Without that cheap labor, you would never have been able to brag about cheap service prices in western Europe. Also, somehow all these people are excluded from the statistics and don't count into calculating average salary or general quality of life. ( And : quite on which grounds , pray ? as I have discussed , in many a bar on at least 4-5 continents , should the Croats be quite so arrogant ? ) Who exactly is arrogant here?  And : NO , we Certainly don't "import" them ; instead , they fight , tooth & nail , by hook and by crook , anywhichway : to get in here , especially the Polish , the Maghreb ones , the Africans , the Indians/Pakistanis/Bangla Deshis/SriLankans , Phillipinoes , South Americans ... ( never heard of a recent case yet , of any of them , bending-over-backwards and cheating on paperwork , to get to live in Zagreb ? ) Depends , who's judging , I think , and from what levels ? Of course you do import them. You can't live without them, someone has to do all the dirty and menial work. Immigration quotas regulate it all. That's simple supply and demand - the moment they are not needed, they will be gone. As for Croatia, should I be surprised that there is no economical migration into a country where real unemployment numbers are close to 25% and even lowest jobs have countless (local) people fighting to get them? . |
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Post by ray51 on Apr 25, 2011 18:44:07 GMT 1
[ Of course you do import them. You can't live without them, someone has to do all the dirty and menial work. Immigration quotas regulate it all. That's simple supply and demand - the moment they are not needed, they will be gone. . What Utter Misconception/s ! We gave NO "Immigration Quotas" , whatsoever ! We are The Idiots ! 1 ) Unemployment in e.g. Wallonia ( 60% of Belgian surface ) is near , or over : 10 % ( ergo , Belgium should NOT "import" manual labour , as you imply ! N.B. Not that I defend this , silly & often : Idiotic Belgium , in anywhich way , or format ! Much : as I couldn't defend U.K.'s immigration idiocies., political correctness and other crazy follies..) . 2 ) once any of the foreign labourers ( specifically : the ones , from outside the new , screwedly-enlarged EU ) have achived a " permanent residence " ( which takes about 9 months , on average , depending on the employers/guarantors ) , they ( and their offspring ! ) can stay here FOREVER ; as in : can't get rid of them , at all , unless they themselves choose to quit , officially ( why should they ? ) and if they can show/prove that they than have no work , nor monies , than the ( Idiotic , sot , look-after-itself ) state will continue to care and provide , after their accommodation , health and the rest ... let me assure you : I live here , since 1999 and I'm "au fait" with the general "sotic"( wasteful ) Madness that prevails , hereabouts ; still , the beer remains the world's very best , as is a lot of the grub , the ( thin ) anorexic girls are very chic in their mix-and-mach states of (un)dress ( beats Zagreb : on any day ! on that count ) and one does " slaloms" , around the huuge EU-Problems ( some of the time/s , as required ) ! |
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Post by crojoe on Apr 25, 2011 20:03:31 GMT 1
Lets air all our dirty laundry. hehe!
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Post by justapixel on Apr 25, 2011 20:13:30 GMT 1
What Utter Misconception/s ! We gave NO "Immigration Quotas" , whatsoever ! We are The Idiots ! Ok, you don't. Basically the market is self-regulated because people will come and stay only if they get the job there. Seems to be the case with most of EU, with job permits much easier to come by if you're from EU or (in some cases) ex-colonies. 1 ) Unemployment in e.g. Wallonia ( 60% of Belgian surface ) is near , or over : 10 % ( ergo , Belgium should NOT "import" manual labour , as you imply ! N.B. Not that I defend this , silly & often : Idiotic Belgium , in anywhich way , or format ! Much : as I couldn't defend U.K.'s immigration idiocies., political correctness and other crazy follies..) . LOL, 10% unemployment is almost as low as natural 5%, which means it's nothing really. Also, Belgium has relativelly lower number of migrant workers compared to other EU countries, can't pinpoint what's the reason behind it though...  2 ) once any of the foreign labourers ( specifically : the ones , from outside the new , screwedly-enlarged EU ) have achived a " permanent residence " ( which takes about 9 months , on average , depending on the employers/guarantors ) , they ( and their offspring ! ) can stay here FOREVER ; as in : can't get rid of them , at all , unless they themselves choose to quit , officially ( why should they ? ) and if they can show/prove that they than have no work , nor monies , than the ( Idiotic , sot , look-after-itself ) state will continue to care and provide , after their accommodation , health and the rest ... Internet says it takes 3 years to get citizenship, which is fairly quickly. It also says there are not too many immigrants in Belgium. I know a few from Croatia, though... let me assure you : I live here , since 1999 and I'm "au fait" with the general "sotic"( wasteful ) Madness that prevails , hereabouts ; still , the beer remains the world's very best , as is a lot of the grub , the ( thin ) anorexic girls are very chic in their mix-and-mach states of (un)dress ( beats Zagreb : on any day ! on that count ) and one does " slaloms" , around the huuge EU-Problems ( some of the time/s , as required ) ! Sot wastefulness is humanism at its best but it can thrive only in rich times. It seems we have hard times ahead and people will become much more selfish. I wouldn't blame overall impoverishment on the immigrants, not in Belgium, not anywhere, but sadly many other people will. I don't know where the true balance is, but I'm disgusted by both parasitic public sector and oversized welfare state bringing down EU (France, Greece...) and by extremely dehumanised neoliberalist capitalism rising in USA. I think we kinda moved on from prices of cleaning in Croatia. To step back and repeat - they are 30-40 kn in Zagreb, probably cheaper elsewhere... . |
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Post by ray51 on Apr 26, 2011 6:33:51 GMT 1
That's what kind of happens , with all sorts of discussions and exchanges , on Forum threads ; they go here and there and if one doesn't like it , one always can abstain ?
Whereas it is true that getting a citizenship takes 3 years here ( N.B. not everyone wants it even , with all it's implications ! ) , this is different from a "permanent residence" status , which takes varying amounths of months , depending on the applicant's nationality .
There are far too many immigrants here ; a huge majority : don't work at all , but sponge off the state instead whilst keeping on producing far too many children ;
some of the others : keep the costs of cleaning " down" .
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pink
Junior Member
Posts: 25
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Post by pink on Apr 26, 2011 6:48:18 GMT 1
I agree with Larry re the hefty cocsts. We are also being charged similar cleaning and laundry charges in Istria (maybe a bit more)....I think this is the going rate for foreigners (who don't have too many options)!
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pink
Junior Member
Posts: 25
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Post by pink on Apr 26, 2011 7:06:27 GMT 1
Sorry, meant to say we have used 3 local ladies in the past - we were passed from one to another for various reasons - and the rate was the same with them all.
I'm not sure how much a Property Management Company would cost? January mentions this and I think we will look into this option as well. Can anyone recommend anyone in Istria?
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