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Post by menace on Jun 10, 2011 18:55:56 GMT 1
Hey guys...
I was chatting with some croatians about some problems in the Government, etc...
One thing I remember is that I heard the usual "we are still a very young country" , as a sort of acceptance of the failings.
So, anyway...I thought I would ask on here, as some of you guys seem a bit more open to discussion and not "I'm a Croatian, so I am always right and I know better than you, but disagree with me and you are part of the conspiracy against all croats"... or something like that!! ;D
I think 20 years is a bit long for a country to still be young, especially since it takes a couple of weeks for the cro. government to thrash out some new laws and legislation's
What do you think has really changed for the citizens (apart from those in the government or their relatives) since yugoslav days?
And on another note...I remember reading an old post "why are you proud", and I would like to expand slightly on that and say "Are you proud of the last 10 years croatia?"
So, I would like to hear your opinions on this...
Thanks in advance....
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Post by Ribaric on Jun 10, 2011 19:09:16 GMT 1
It's a much used phrase but I do think it has some merit. The people around me lead me to believe that under som, years of acceptance that "connections", corruption and cronyism has made these aspects of society into the norm. It is probably the case in 85% of all countries. Despite the coming of a democratic sytem, the old ways are proving difficult to change and people still have little faith in the institutions. The indignance to injustice felt by westerners is largely absent here, even in the youth. Few people will kick up a fuss for fear of "things" going badly for them. The apologists for the old times have a simple message about how it was "better under Tito" but fail to grasp the fact that Croatia is not Yugoslavia (4.5 million people as aopposed to 20 million) and Tito was living on foreign debt for years. In view of the inertia of all people to big change, Croatia is doing OK and, of late, Mrs Kosor seems to be kicking sand in the faces of those who need to be put down. Bravo lass! Case in point, a senior political figure was recently accused of assaulting a woman - Kosor sacked him. In the old days?  ?? |
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Post by newhere on Jun 10, 2011 19:59:13 GMT 1
I'm not croatian, but can say I think 20yrs is a bit long to see no real significant changes on the ground level (i.e those that affect the common people) Rib. mentions Kosor sacking some high ranking bloke that assaulted a women, but this is typical government "sabre rattling" and again like i mentioned above "Nothing for the better of the common people but everything for the government" Reminds me of all those cases of "weeding" out those Fraudsters, have you ever noticed anything for us common people, since they have probably saved millions of Euro's? no, but Kosor and her gov. cronies look good Bandic and whoever, still buys stuff for about 10,000kn but give us the bill of 70,000 Does anyone really believe the pope's visit + security cost 53 million? I agree with Rib. about the scars of communism causing the slow changes and doubts of any changes, but I dont agree and I think its slowness is more to do with the government milking the cash-cow and relying on the fact that the people are to divided and suspicious of eachother to do anything about it. What has really changed since yugoslavia? I presume you mean since the birth of Croatia ;D Hmmm...definitely Corruption, Mafia, Fraud and Nationalism Are you proud of the last 10yrs...I wouldnt be....but hey, I am just a foreigner! Sorry if I offended anybody...just my views  |
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Post by crojoe on Jun 10, 2011 20:09:36 GMT 1
Hey guys... I was chatting with some croatians about some problems in the Government, etc... One thing I remember is that I heard the usual "we are still a very young country" , as a sort of acceptance of the failings. So, anyway...I thought I would ask on here, as some of you guys seem a bit more open to discussion and not "I'm a Croatian, so I am always right and I know better than you, but disagree with me and you are part of the conspiracy against all croats"... or something like that!! ;D I think 20 years is a bit long for a country to still be young, especially since it takes a couple of weeks for the cro. government to thrash out some new laws and legislation's What do you think has really changed for the citizens (apart from those in the government or their relatives) since yugoslav days? And on another note...I remember reading an old post "why are you proud", and I would like to expand slightly on that and say "Are you proud of the last 10 years croatia?" So, I would like to hear your opinions on this... Thanks in advance.... A lot has changes since 20 years or Jugo. days. You also have to take modernism into the factor, shrinking world and the computer age. Older folks I know (not just Croatians) long for the good ol’ days as that is what they got comfortable with, and most likely life was a lot less complicated, slower and people lived on less. I'm old enough to remember no mobile phones, home computers, budget airlines, 100 channels to choose from on TV as average package, and in all honestly those days where a lot more simple and enjoyable. I used to be outdoors all the time after school, but kids today are glued to TV and the internet. The things that have taken ages to change are the business climate in Croatia. All those hours sitting at parliament arguing hasn't really made life that much easier. Croatia could make a leap into the modern age if it so chose too, but some ones or some bodies are holding it back. Hardly anything is on-line that the government is in control off. They still rely on the fear factor with the population, thinking this will get them respect or discourage a different opinion. I've seen first hand how many changes in the laws they implement don't have landing gear, they don't do follow up to see the consequences or tweak the laws, and so often too many changes are about self interest or personal gain. Like I've said before, most Croatians don't know any better or know that life could be better. You could say they are too close to the tree to see the forest. This is not to say everything is a mess or bad, as they still hold onto good family values and hold some form of nationalism or pride of being Croatian, something I know my country lacks, resulting in no back bone to its national heritage or way of life. I think the next year will be really interesting to watch and see what happens. Will changes be made, will prosecutions of top officials take place, will matters of business become easier, and will more freedom take hold? |
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Post by justapixel on Jun 10, 2011 21:16:50 GMT 1
If you ever had any business with any government employee, you must have noticed that time moves much slower there and 20 years in human time is less than two years in government time, and you can't accomplish much within that time frame  So, bear in mind, when you enter a government institution, you're entering a time machine, and your expectancies should be shaped accordingly. ;D . |
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Post by 3lions on Jun 11, 2011 1:30:47 GMT 1
It depends how far you want to get on in life. If you want to get on then 20 years is like an old women pushing a donkey up a hill.
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Post by mickanddeb09 on Jun 12, 2011 22:35:06 GMT 1
20 years is not young.......if you created and established a country from scratch. However, when you reclaim a country's identity back from a sot/communist regime, and attempt to put democracy in place, you must be prepared for a long, hard slog. In the 16 years since the end of the war, and Croatia's new state of independence, you have to take into account that these people now in government, knew only one way, sot/communist. For any clear and complete changes, you really have to wait for the next generation, the kids of today, who will be the leaders of tomorrow, will have a different outlook than those who have lived in the era of dictatorship. Until that time comes around, the slow changes that are being put in place are going to take time, maybe a lot longer than 20 years. Just to rebuild industry, infrastructure, housing, churches, bridges etc, will take many years. So yes, 20 years is still young  |
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Post by Madgolfer on Jun 13, 2011 8:01:31 GMT 1
I agree that 20 years is still VERY young in terms of a country and that it will be the next generation that will truly implement the changes and drive Croatia forward, so probably another 20 years.
Assuming all the good ones haven't left to work abroad by then. ;D
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Post by Madgolfer on Jun 13, 2011 8:02:48 GMT 1
And lets not forget about all us forigners here, we are all helping the country along in our own little way. |
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