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Post by riki on Aug 26, 2011 10:03:45 GMT 1
I have 2 pre-contracts for the purchase of my farm. One has some land and the house and the other has just land. The reason for the 2 contracts was because the first contract was all 'clean' and the second had to be cleaned.
Turned out one portion of the first contract was not 100% clean (the house piece). So I paid a portion of the first contract and got all the land transferred. Now the house piece is cleared as well as 10% of the second contract. The seller is now demanding that I pay half of the second contract as well before he will sign the house to me. I don't think that is right, because we have a contract that says the land must be cleared before payment. He has been arguing with me for a few months and demanding more than the first contract's amount.
Now I have a letter from the property lawyer saying that the seller has cleared the property as per the contract and I must reply in 15 days or they will assume I am abandoning the contract. When I phoned the lawyer to say I had no problem with paying the balance of the first contract but I could not pay anything on the second contract until the land was cleared, he said I must come in for a meeting with the seller as he would not discuss terms on the phone.
Surely a contract is binding and they cannot force me to pay more than that amount? To me it seems easy, but everyone I have spoken to seems to think I could loose the house.
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Post by Ribaric on Aug 26, 2011 11:06:01 GMT 1
"Surely a contract is binding"
There's the question Riki. It may be binding but if no consequences are applied to those who break a contract then what's the point in having one? It seems to me that contracts are only of any use if you have the whip hand.
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Post by Madgolfer on Aug 26, 2011 11:29:28 GMT 1
From what you describe Riki, I agree that it does sound pretty straight forward.......but then this is Croatia and a different type of logic applies.
Go see your lawyer and meet the seller and see what they have to say.
The seller may be just trying it on because he needs the money, or (more likely I am afraid) is that the papers have proved impossible to clean or are just too expensive for them to clean, hence they want more money from you.
I don't know when you bought your property, but the new/current law (narodne novine no 90/11) clearly states that no one can sell any land or property in Croatia without a building permit or a usage permit if there is a house on the land.
Unless a house was built pre 1968, you MUST have a building permit and usage permit before the sale can be legalized. If there are no permits any contract would be invalid, they cannot be obtained afterword's anymore and is probably linked to the up coming new amnesty law for illegal buildings.
So many Croatians (including most real estate agencies and lawyers) promise that title papers can be cleaned and make it sound so easy, but they just want the business and your money at the end of the day. The reality of cleaning title ownership papers is a great deal harder and more involved than people are led to believe.
As a company we are not interested in any property without clean title, its just not worth the grief. We only offer properties with clean title already in place; otherwise you must be prepared for a long and sometimes very expensive haul.
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Post by zvekov on Aug 27, 2011 23:21:27 GMT 1
does this mean the death of off-plan sales in croatia?
i can't see any contract signed (usually at a stage even before location permit, let-alone usage permit) with a developer having any legal strength on this assertion.
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Post by Carol on Nov 14, 2011 13:53:52 GMT 1
MG - how does finding properties with clean title work in practice?
the biggest determinant when getting a house cleaned on the coast, is whether its worth it. (i.e. if it cost €10k to clean it but the house is worth €250k then its a no brainer, but if its worth €50k then its hard to find owners willing to make the investment). So, now we've had several years have passed since property prices started to rise on the coast, we've got a reasonable (not good) supply of clean properties (because cleaning can take years).
I am guessing that properties in your area cost a lot less than on the coast, but the cost to cleaning up papers is just as expensive. So assuming that properties in your area were just as likely to be dirty 10 years ago as the ones on the coast, but you haven't had the price rises that made the cleaning up worthwhile. Then surely it must be really hard to find clean properties, especially clean, old houses??
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Post by Carol on Nov 14, 2011 13:57:25 GMT 1
There is always (at there should always be) a clause in the pre-contract that says that if the seller withdraws then the buyer can choose to abandon the sale and get the deposit back or force the sale to go ahead as described in the pre-contract.
Ok, you'd have to go to court to force it but you'd get a plombe put on the property immediately and the owner wouldn't be able to sell to anyone else whilst you are waiting for the court to hear the case.
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Post by Madgolfer on Nov 14, 2011 20:45:33 GMT 1
Carol, tell me about it!  Its very hard with weekend homes such as wine houses etc, getting an owner to clean the title papers on a property that is only worth €10k-€50k is very hard. We must have over 50 like this in the files awaiting clean papers. Farms and village properties are different because they have usually been used for family homes and the papers are either clean already or are pretty easy to clean as they only go back 1 or 2 generations at most. There are few that you look at, lovely properties that you know you could sell but the paperwork is just to difficult or uneconomic to bother cleaning. |
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Post by Madgolfer on Nov 14, 2011 20:46:21 GMT 1
Riki, any news? How did you get on?
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Post by Madgolfer on Nov 14, 2011 20:51:34 GMT 1
does this mean the death of off-plan sales in croatia?
i can't see any contract signed (usually at a stage even before location permit, let-alone usage permit) with a developer having any legal strength on this assertion.
If you are talking about apartments I don't know how developers will get around it Zvekov? they need to find a way or no one will buy on this basis.
With individual villas at least you can have the purchase contract for the land plot signed, that would be quite straightforward. But I have no idea how you can get around it otherwise?
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Post by Carol on Nov 14, 2011 21:21:55 GMT 1
does this mean the death of off-plan sales in croatia?
i can't see any contract signed (usually at a stage even before location permit, let-alone usage permit) with a developer having any legal strength on this assertion.If you are talking about apartments I don't know how developers will get around it Zvekov? they need to find a way or no one will buy on this basis. With individual villas at least you can have the purchase contract for the land plot signed, that would be quite straightforward. But I have no idea how you can get around it otherwise? Just an idea, but people could do it as a loan and a pre-contract combo? |
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Post by zvekov on Nov 14, 2011 22:39:18 GMT 1
well MG you can imagine, the developers will find a way of selling the portion of land, but realistically no contract will be valid if there's any reference to a building(w/o permit)??
Will the notary public ensure invalid contracts are not signed, or is their job just to witness signatures?
It is a pending nightmare as developers will still find a way of selling but it may just create the wrong business environment if its abused
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Post by Carol on Nov 15, 2011 22:08:54 GMT 1
public notary will not check the documents, only the signatures
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