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Post by LoveU2 on Jan 6, 2005 10:15:40 GMT 1
I think that Croatia does not have to join the EU, to get ahead.
I must admit we have alot of work to do, I think within 5 years Croatia could be very competitive with the rest of Europe if we cleaned up goverment. I think that they need to lower some of the taxes to get the economy going, I think that they need to give incentives to Croatian small business owners and small tax breaks to small & medium manufacturing/technology/other. I do think that they need to have a high tax for luxury items like expensive boats, cars. I also think that people making over $100,000 a year should be paying higher taxes than the rest of the population. Once the country stabalizes than you can lower the luxury tax on Boat/car/other.
I hate people that say how Croatians are sitting around all day in cafe's and not wanting to work.... That is a bunch of Crap, All Croatian men that I know that came to America, all work hard because they had oppurtunity to work. Almost all Croatians I know are successful in america, I have never met a poor Croat! So these people that are sitting around the cafe's drinking and smoking in Croatia. It is not because they want toooo it is because there is nothing else!!!! Give a Croat a job with good pay, you will see a hard worker. Would anyone want to work hard and get payed crap or not get a paycheck that month. If that happened in the USA, no pay check for a month, you would see lots of people sitting in coffee shops drinking and smoking too.
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Post by EMIZZZZAGREB on Jan 6, 2005 13:41:49 GMT 1
J, the USA only helps the USA, your oil prices have little impact on me, in Europe of oil prices had not be controlled then the high taxation would never have been possible.
It is time we moved away from fossil fuels and the USA in particular is not doing enough to lower emissions.
The low price of the dollar is a fine example of USA, acting only in their interests.
I have no problem with the USA but like all countries and perhaps more than most, it acts are purely for its own interest.
As for bowing down to you; ha what a stupid thing to say. I admire people for who they are and what they have done and certainly not because of their nationality.
Generally Brits are not impressed by yanks.
He typical strertype is loud, obese and no sense of humour.
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Post by EMIZZZZAGREB on Jan 6, 2005 14:09:44 GMT 1
ILOVEU2; firstly the fact that you live and work in USA and don't want foreigners to live in Croatia is very hypocritical, do you agree?
Now lets try t do the next bit without arguing.
#“I must admit we have alot of work to do, I think within 5 years Croatia could be very competitive with the rest of Europe if we cleaned up government”#
I really don’t understand your reasoning, who will you compete with? Portugal and Romania, or France, the UK and Germany.
If it’s the latter which is of course entirely unrealistic, could you please explain to me, how the economy with grow and sustain the growth? Croatia simply does not have enough companies that produce enough, the only large company that would be respected abroad IMO is Pliva.
Ok, so you claim that they should lower the taxes, not something I disagree with, but how will they fill the black hole? How will an already over stretched economy cope with lower taxes? I don’t think they can lower public spending, quite the opposite, public spending needs to increase by at least 80%. However the government simply does not have the money.
I hate people that say how Croatians are sitting around all day in cafe's and not wanting to work.... That is a bunch of Crap,
Unfortunately this is not a bunch of ****, it is very common, if the Croats in USA behaved in a similar way to many Croats in Croatia, they would not be successful.
In most companies people drink coffee for 30 minutes before they start.
Give a Croat a job with good pay, you will see a hard worker.
There simply is not a hard work ethic here, laziness that would not be accepted in other countries is commonly accepted here.
There are many people in Croatia who do not fit the stereotype, I know many wealthy and hard working people in Croatia, there is also a new breed of croats that are idealistic and want to make a change, I hope they can.
However it is clear for anybody to see that Croatia cannot do it alone, and why would it? Working together is a positive thing. Drop the nationalistic style of approach, collect your strengths, and expect to gain from the EU, because there I no doubt that the EU will help the Croatian economy, the infrastructure and I believe the quality if life for many.
One final thought, your tag line: An open mind affords the opportunity of dropping a worthwhile thought into it!
Do you seriously believe that you are open-minded?
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Post by Andypandy on Jan 6, 2005 14:40:27 GMT 1
EMIZ - it is not worth aguing with someone as thick as LoveU2. She would argue that the World was flat without shame. Is she 4 or 5 years old?
She said "Scotland could never be part of England" Its like saying a kidney could never be part of a liver!!!!
Funny thing is she doesnt realise how thick she makes herself look!!!!
She is essentally a septic tank (yank) who knows bugger and all insults people.
Funny thing is, I know Croatians, and if she did move there people would hate her.
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Post by LoveU2 on Jan 6, 2005 21:29:07 GMT 1
Andy Pants & Englishmanhole in Zagreb Tweedle dee & Tweedle dum
I see you are following me around on the post, taking my words and twisting them.
This is what I said "You are full of about Scotland wanting to be part of england(u.k.)." I never said what you are claiming I said, why do you do that. Why do you lie so blatantly, where everyone can look up my post and see that you are lying.... You have a problem!
AndyPants, do you think people here can't read and won't notice that you are lying...hahahaha Now EMIZ, I told you before, I am not talking to you, so please don't post to me, you keep following me around and commenting on everything I write, like a puppy. Maybe I should call you Englishpuppy in Zagreb....hmmm
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Post by Tonys vino on Jan 7, 2005 4:04:43 GMT 1
...stick to the topic U2, or go and talk to yourself in front of a mirror. It's about Croatians being lazy...you see they work hard for very little and they do not know how to work efficiently...they cannot see how to make the best out of what resources they have, and this is why foreigners have such an advantage.
Also to foreigners they do appear to look lazy because of their cafe culture. I cannot forget witnessing men drinking hard spirits at a cafe in Zagreb at seven o'clock in the morning. What can you do for the rest of the day after that? When I have been in Croatia I must shamfully admit that I too have been completely drunk by about midday. I once passed out under a fir tree when I was supposed to be meeting some Croatian friends at 3pm.
Plus, finishing work at 2 or 3 in the afternoon is not professional, when you are trying to make a big impression on people.
Got it now, have you
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Post by j on Jan 7, 2005 5:37:45 GMT 1
hello...
i believe that oil prices do have an impact on everyone... i believe that your oil prices are based on a market system in most nations over there.. i may be wrong..
make no mistake though.. high fossil fuel prices will run your buisness and others into the ground... if you can comprehend capitalism.. maybe it is not the croats fault for all your woes... could it be self inflicted???
i did not intend to suggest that brits should bow their heads.. just you...
well... tommorow is a new day... i look forward to more of your incesent whining.. i doubt you will disapoint me
your sterotypical.. loud... obese... humorless .... yank
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Post by Daria on Jan 10, 2005 5:08:55 GMT 1
Since im the one who started this post(and havent posted for a while) i want to take this opurtunity to reply.
For one thing i seem to be getting many posts about how croatia should "stand on its on two feet". I know this is a board where you post your opinions so im not automatically going to jjump to conclusions and say NOO your wrong so i decided on making a pro and con chart.
Please post pros or cons and well balance it out.
PROS AND CONS FOR CROATIA JOINING THE E.U | | \ /
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Post by Guest on Jan 10, 2005 10:05:29 GMT 1
LoveU2, You are wrong, wrong, wrong, (again!). Why do you keep writing when it is clear to everyone that you have no idea what you're talking about! You are all over this board, with nothing worthy to submit!!
First of all, I think it's very ironic that you are saying what Croatia has to do to be competitive, and it's the very same things that the english guy in Zagreb says need to change! Yet you pit yourself against him!
You hate that people "say" Croats sit around all day drinking coffee! Here's news sweetheart: they do! And they do it at work, too, according to my husband who knows (unlike you, who don't even live in Croatia!!) YOu think it's because they have nothing else to do, you're right. It's because they LACK INITITIVE to make something for themselves. That's what's so fabulous about America: you can do anything because there is a climate of "can do", a spirit Americans have, a motivation. DOES NOT exist in Croatia, they sit around and wait for something to be given to them.
In the USA, people who don't work a lot or get paid much, DONT sit around cafes, what are you thinking!?They're too busy trying to get something started for themselves, to support their families. U2, you don't even live in Croatia! You have no say.
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Post by LoveU2 on Jan 11, 2005 5:41:55 GMT 1
LoveU2, You are wrong, wrong, wrong, (again!). Why do you keep writing when it is clear to everyone that you have no idea what you're talking about! You are all over this board, with nothing worthy to submit!! First of all, I think it's very ironic that you are saying what Croatia has to do to be competitive, and it's the very same things that the english guy in Zagreb says need to change! Yet you pit yourself against him! You hate that people "say" Croats sit around all day drinking coffee! Here's news sweetheart: they do! And they do it at work, too, according to my husband who knows (unlike you, who don't even live in Croatia!!) YOu think it's because they have nothing else to do, you're right. It's because they LACK INITITIVE to make something for themselves. That's what's so fabulous about America: you can do anything because there is a climate of "can do", a spirit Americans have, a motivation. DOES NOT exist in Croatia, they sit around and wait for something to be given to them. In the USA, people who don't work a lot or get paid much, DONT sit around cafes, what are you thinking!?They're too busy trying to get something started for themselves, to support their families. U2, you don't even live in Croatia! You have no say. First off, I guess you are retarded because you are siding with that whining twit..... I do not see things the way you do, so it does not make me wrong! If you read what I said.... I said Croatians that are drinking and sitting around all day, it is not because they want to.... it is because there are no opportunities in Croatia (unemployment is at around 25%). I also said if america was in the same situtation (25%unemployment rate) you would see people sitting around coffee shops do nothing all day also!!! Actually if you go to any country with high unemployment rate, you see people sitting around doing nothing,,,, what the hell are they suppose to be doing... The other thing you say is croats sit around drinking coffee at work,,, have you seen state workers in the USA...have you been to a DMV or Immigration office in the usa, the people that work at these places are the laziest mother ers and the rudiest. Have you ever sat in a walmart line just trying to purchase one or two things in a hurry and the clerk is a stupid, slow, rude person, that is taking their sweet time scanning your items. Have you sat in line for 10 minutes in the bank to deal with a rude american teller or waited at the dentist office an hour and the receptionist does not apoligize for the long wait and is rude, sipping coffee while taking your hard earned money!!!! There is rude LAZY, workers in every country!!! Guest you also say that americans have that "can do" spirit..... You obviously have not been to America.... that "can do"spirit also has lots of consquences!!!! America lacks alot of quality, yeah you can make a buck, but you better watch out that you don't die for that buck. Either slow death of working day in, day out, long, long, long hours and never see your family or die quick while depositing your big paycheck in the bank it gets robbed and they shoot you in the head!!! America is not that land of Milk and Honey you see in the movies, there are alot of poor people here, alot of people that don't have enough money to keep the heat on in their homes. There are alot of lazy americans that sit on welfare system and don't want to do all day but smoke dope and sleep.... so if you call that the "can do spirit" then by all means come to america Guest are you trying to say Croatians are LAZY??? If you are .....YOU ARE WRONG... some of the hardest working people are Croatians. You also say I don't live in Croatia and I don't have a say.. Wrong, I am Croatian Citizen I have big say, my husband is Croat citizen, just left croatia 5 years now and we are going back permanently to Croatia. WE HAVE A BIG SAY IN WHAT WE FEEL ABOUT CROATIA. Maybe you should'nt say anything, maybe you don't have the right to say anything. Who made you boss of who gets a say in the world... At least I don't go around saying Croatians are lazy, that they lack inititive. If we were lazy and lacked inititive, I don't think we would still be croatia.... we would be Serbia! So please don't say rude things like that about Croatia, they are not true. We croatian have our problems but we are not Lazy or stupid.
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Post by svugrekzg on Jan 11, 2005 7:26:15 GMT 1
You got wrong info. Unemployment rate in CRO is beetwen 17% and 18% or 300.000 unemployed people from which around 100.000 people work anyway but in gray economy (not registered, no taxes hehe) Ajd bok
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Post by Why the rudeness on Jan 11, 2005 14:46:57 GMT 1
LoveU2, Why do you keep using profanity on this board? No one appreciates it. We don't want to come here to see you swear. Please tone it down and try to have a discussion like a mature adult. You actually sound fanatic!!
And, yes I think the US ppl have much more inititiave. As a whole, they don't sit around and wait for a job to be handed to them. Also, the gov't has a great program with small business loans for people to start their own businesses. There are many programs to help people with lack of education to better themselves and work towards a job. There are many job centers to help you look for work. At least people have a chance to DO SOMETHING. This is also true for other western nations, like UK. How about volunteer programs? People who have no jobs in US can (and do) volunteer, mothers help out in the schools, there are so many clubs to participate in. I have been to US many many times (family there) and I very rarely see people sitting around a cafe. Their "can do" attitude is exactly why they have better employment, even though their economy and dollar are not so good right now.
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Post by CroatladyinUS on Jan 11, 2005 16:43:12 GMT 1
One issue regarding the productivity of Croatians is that many of those with initiave have left to work elsewhere. Sure there are those who don't care to move their butt off the cafe chair or put out their cigarette, but then again I know quite a few people (younger generation mostly) who work 2 and 3 jobs. Generalizations are bad whatever the subject being discussed.
When I first moved back to Croatia in the late 80's while it was still Yugoslavia, I have to admit I was quite in culture shock -- I even coined a term -- "rakija time". God forbid if you interrupted anyone during "rakija time" or during coffee, often it was coffee/rakija/cigarette all at the same time. Never mind that there was a line of people waiting to be served, it was time for "pauza" and you had to wait no matter what your circumstance. This is a holdover from communist times. Thankfully far fewer people smoke now, far fewer drink at 7am than they used to and things seem to be changing for the better.
Croatia has problems because her leadership has in many ways failed its people. (What politician anywhere in the world truly wants to help the people??) God Bless those that do, but they're few and far between. In the 90's when it was time to put initiatives in place to work toward a capitalist economy, the politicians were busy grabbing up for themselves wherever and whatever they could. Then comes the war, resources are redirected toward the war effort mixed with war profiteering and Croatia is further pushed behind. Now it's the private sector that must drive the politicians into positive change and in time this will eventually happen.
Food is expensive because of PDV. What kind of sense does it make to tax food?? Even charitable donations are taxed....insanity. Croatia's gov't needs to realize that prosperous ecoomies are not prosperous because they suck the blood through taxation out of its workforce but rather because of productivity. Croatia has missed the boat on this point and with job creation and fostering small business and needs to get behind the 8 ball very soon on these issues. Which leads me to the EU question....
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Post by CroatladyinUS on Jan 11, 2005 17:03:18 GMT 1
Is the EU a good thing for Croatia?? Perhaps. Certainly there are tantalizing potential positives, but at what cost? Will Croatia be able to restructure the tax system, or will the EU insist upon guidelines in keeping with its member countries?? The EU has its own agenda, and I will cite a case to illustrate my point. Two years ago the EU passed a directive banning all nutritional supplements including vitamins, herbs, etc. And is set to be put into force in less than a year. These items will only be available by prescription through a doctor. Why? Because of the greedy pharmaceutical lobby which is very strong. Currently the directive is being opposed by an organization in England, the National Alliance for Alternative Health and they have so far won the first round. This directive also impacts the US and other World Trade Organization member countries. WTO members are bound to comply to these EU trade directives. Now this may seem like an insignifant issue to you if you have no interest in alternative health care. But it is a right to be able to decide whether one wants to take vitamins, herbs or whatever. And this is but one example, who knows what other directives meant to "protect" us will be forced upon us by the EU and global corporate greed....that are some not so pretty things brewing beneath this lovely, "all for one, one for all" mentality that we no nothing about.
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Post by LoveU2 on Jan 11, 2005 21:38:35 GMT 1
LoveU2, Why do you keep using profanity on this board? No one appreciates it. We don't want to come here to see you swear. Please tone it down and try to have a discussion like a mature adult. You actually sound fanatic!! And, yes I think the US ppl have much more inititiave. As a whole, they don't sit around and wait for a job to be handed to them. Also, the gov't has a great program with small business loans for people to start their own businesses. There are many programs to help people with lack of education to better themselves and work towards a job. There are many job centers to help you look for work. At least people have a chance to DO SOMETHING. This is also true for other western nations, like UK. How about volunteer programs? People who have no jobs in US can (and do) volunteer, mothers help out in the schools, there are so many clubs to participate in. I have been to US many many times (family there) and I very rarely see people sitting around a cafe. Their "can do" attitude is exactly why they have better employment, even though their economy and dollar are not so good right now. I love it ....you sign up as a guest, then use different names but we all know it is the same person....Why don't you sign up as a member and then I will consider what you say....other than that...Shut your pie hole. Who made you the moniter of who's post should be toned down....if you want it that way...I don't like what you are posting, you sound like a dumb "can do" attitude american that is invading Iraq, ignoring the Sudan, pigging out on KFC/McDonalds/Burgerking....using most of the worlds oil...polluting the earth more than any other country, monster truck driving American!!!! You sit there and say crap about Croatia, who got out of war in the 90's and are trying to still get things right. Yes we have a corrupt government. It will change. Things take time... I do recall american blacks did not have rights about 50 years ago....so called "can do" attitude. How did it take so long for american blacks to get their rights? Things take time to straighten out, unfortunately America was very slow about blacks rights in fact alot of races were treated very poorly, indians, mexicans, etc... I think instead of alway pointing the finger at croatia and pointing out her faults it would be nice if people also pointed out her greatness.... I don't think any Americans have the right to say anything negative about croatia, when their own backyard is stinking from all the garbage and . You talk like you never see americans sitting in restaurants, that is not true. But what is really sad is seeing some lazy slobs go thru a drive thru for burgers than go straight home to sit in front of the t.v. , the only people they talk to is there cat or dog. They don't know their neighbors, they may take a walk to the mail box, pass a neighbor and never say hello or even know their neighbors name. They may not all be sitting around cafes but they maybe sitting around somewhere. That is also america... You talk about volunteering....Mom's that volunteer at school... do you think that mom would volunteer if her kid was not at that school...hmmm? and you know what else, I have never seen hundreds and hundreds of homeless in Croatia....In america there are streets where homeless are in the hundreds, sleeping in the most extreme conditions(snow,sleet) what does the american government do about that.... they give the top wealtiest people in the US. large tax refunds....Bush your favorite American, sticks it to the homeless and middle class.... You talk about americans having jobs...what kind of jobs, working in McDonalds or washing toilets, filing letters, tell me how someone can afford to work at some low paying job and make a house payment, let alone rent & food.... so before you go pointing fingers at how bad Croatia is, you might want to point out some good things about Croatia too. especially when your own USA is in a mess.
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