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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 2, 2005 0:35:46 GMT 1
Why do you think it is U.K. that is constantly insisting on Gotovina? Why does that bother only U.K. and not other big players in EU like Germany, France or Italy?
Latest news says it is U.K. that insisted stopping the beginning of negotiations between EU Na Croatia until Gotovina is caught and extradited.
Is it because of an opinion that whole west Balkan has to enter E.U. in the package, so Croatia will be delayed on and on until Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia and Macedonia are ready to enter in order to keep stability and balance in the region? I can not believe that one person can be the cause for stopping Croatia entering E.U.Can the whole country be a hostage just because one person is hiding? I can not believe that MI6 can not find him. If they claim he is in Croatia why don’t they say where is he exactly hiding?
This is also not really good news for YOU, U.K. citisens who possess property in Croatia. Your property value will not rise as expected and EU standards will come to Croatia much later then you expected when you purchased property.
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Post by gintwins2 on Feb 2, 2005 4:55:07 GMT 1
I dont agree with UK policy on this point, but I never expected big things for at least 5-7 years.
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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 2, 2005 8:09:07 GMT 1
and BTW in July U.K. takes over presidency of E.U. from Luxemburg and that means nothing will even start to happen in those 6 months.
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Post by Graham - Bosmere on Feb 2, 2005 12:47:58 GMT 1
BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Accession talks with Croatia will not begin unless the country improves its record of co-operation with the UN war crimes tribunal, Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn said at a press conference Monday (31 January), adding that Zagreb has so far not shown the political will to arrest fugitive war crimes indictee Ante Gotovina. Rehn said the EU has reliable information that Gotovina is either in Croatia or in Croat-dominated areas of Bosnia and Herzegovina, both within reach of the Croatian government. Accession talks are slated to begin 17 March. (Vecernji list - 01/02/05; BBC, FT, AFP EU Observer, HINA - 31/01/05)
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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 2, 2005 20:09:16 GMT 1
and it was U.K. delegation that insisted on this followed by Sweden and Finland.
Why?
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Post by Guest on Feb 3, 2005 2:34:34 GMT 1
and it was U.K. delegation that insisted on this followed by Sweden and Finland. Why? Why not ? If they can make agressive war in coalition with USA without any legal EU's and UN's support, and keep their membership in both nonquestionable, I don't see why they could't f**k a little bit with some Croatia in free time. What do you think - that they will bother with extradiction of some mass murdering general from Latin America maybe ?? Come on, those are civilised one Barba Jere. We are just not supposed to understand those on higer civilisation levels ... Mother nature, Her Majesty and God himself choosed it to be this way. Got it ?
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Post by Three Lions on Feb 3, 2005 15:37:34 GMT 1
Yeah this thread is total rubbish, the only people stopping Croatia's entry into the EU are the old corrupt commie croatians who want to keep all the money to themselves and stop the development of a croatian midddle class. Most people in Croatia struggle from day to day.
Yeah yeah and like the Uk is really interested itself in the EU.
yeah yeah yeah that Carla delli Ponti Wanti woman at the Hague is really from Sheffield.
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Petar
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by Petar on Feb 3, 2005 18:28:19 GMT 1
My impression of the whole Gotovina thing is that the EU wants Croatia in, but has to provide some sort of scapegoat for their constituents. Unfortunately, most of the world sees Croatia as full of rabid ultra-nationalists and war-mongers. Whether Gotovina is guilty or not, Croatia obviously has to offer up some sacrificial lamb to allow the Eu to say that Croatia is now co-operating with Europe and the region of the Western Balkans is now 'stable'. We can get as angry as we want about how the world views this part of the world, but, once again, we have to play by their rules if we want to receive any of their benefits.
I agree with Three Lions that our former commie government needs a swift kick in the a**. If they think they'll move into the EU and play with the big boys the way they've been doing it up until now, they've got another thing coming.
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Post by Loveu2 on Feb 3, 2005 22:22:54 GMT 1
My impression of the whole Gotovina thing is that the EU wants Croatia in, but has to provide some sort of scapegoat for their constituents. Unfortunately, most of the world sees Croatia as full of rabid ultra-nationalists and war-mongers. Whether Gotovina is guilty or not, Croatia obviously has to offer up some sacrificial lamb to allow the Eu to say that Croatia is now co-operating with Europe and the region of the Western Balkans is now 'stable'. We can get as angry as we want about how the world views this part of the world, but, once again, we have to play by their rules if we want to receive any of their benefits. I agree with Three Lions that our former commie government needs a swift kick in the a**. If they think they'll move into the EU and play with the big boys the way they've been doing it up until now, they've got another thing coming. I hope to hell we don't get into the EU.... the only negative things I hear about Croatia are from alot of the English.... No, the whole world does not think that Croatia is fascist, nationalists, war mongers blah blah blah.....Only a few of you English feel that way. Did we start the war, did we invade Serbia. I think the world knows that Croatians overall are a good and that we have a screwed up government. Do people around the world judge you English by what your future king does. No, they can look beyond your stupid royalty and government and see that the people are overall decent. I don't want to be in the E.U. I have stated this many times before. I don't think it would benefit Croatia at this time. Maybe later when we are more stablized and our annual earning ratio's are more like England and the rest of Europe then maybe we should join. Right now joing EU. is going to destroy our people completely. There won't be one home on the coast that will be owned by a croatain. Slavonia will be taken over for her great farm lands..........so NO THANKS EU. And by the way, the English are being ridiculous about Ante gotovina. How can you hold a whole country responsible for ONE MAN!
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Post by Culchie on Feb 4, 2005 0:33:58 GMT 1
You don't want Croatia in the EU?
If it is prospering so well externally, why are you in the USA?
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Petar
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by Petar on Feb 4, 2005 17:48:25 GMT 1
Hey LoveU2,
I get the impression from reading your response that you think I'm an Englishman. I'm a Croat living in Zagreb and I actually agree with you that a lot of anti-Croat sentiment does come out of the UK. I know just from living there for a short while that there were a lot of people who believed that the whole Balkans were a mess and that we were all just 'savage barbarians' who couldn't get along. Granted, some were curious and wanted to know more about what went on here, the history, the politics, etc.
However, like it or not, most of the world is indifferent to Croatia and Bosna and the rest of the area. A lot of people make presumptions. I told an American once that I was a Croat and he said that 'You must be a good sniper if you're from there.' I've heard people in Canada and Australia say it too. The general public in a big chunk of the world hears Croatia and they associate it with the Balkans, with war, with intolerance, with ultra-nationalism etc. It doesn't mean we're all that, nor does it mean that it's all a myth and it doesn't exist either. Every country in the world has extremists that account for a small percentage of their population.
One of the most satisfying feelings in the world is when a friend visits here from abroad and is shocked at the beautiful coastline and that the country has recovered so quickly from the war. I once interviewed an Isreali filmmaker from Tel-Aviv and he said that before he came he expected to see bombed out homes and destruction. We both had a laugh when I told him that's what I imagined the Gaza Strip to be like.
I'm also very ambivalent about EU accession. On the one hand, I like the idea because it force the government here to straighten up. On the other, I don't want to see the whole of the country became a giant labour class for Western Europe. As for the coast being sold off, that all depends on the locals who own the land there. Will they get their act together and develop and build an infrastructure and a strong tourism industry? Or will they sell off whatever chunk of land they own to the highest bidder. We have a lot to learn from the Spanish whose coastline is essentially an English and german colony.
I don't know about Croatia being held accountable for one man, but Del Ponte and her cronies are hell bent on making the Croatian government produce Gotovina to the Hague. It's a game where a symbolic action is needed. The EU guys want to see if we'll cave in to their style of politicking or whether we'll snub them, in which case they'll just shrug and say to the world 'What can you do with these balkan types?' meaning, we're unreasonable, uncivilized primitives in their eyes and we don't 'belong' in the EU.
Fortunately, the odds of Croatia joining the EU by 2007 or '08 are slim. In the meantime, we can see how they treat Slovenia, Poland, Slovakia and the other former Eastern Bloc countries and gauge whether this is really a way to exploit us or if a mass trading bloc all over Europe is a good thing.
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Post by Three Lions on Feb 5, 2005 1:52:57 GMT 1
Lets not forget that UK policy is closely intwined with US policy? Jack Straw was on tele tonight with Condoleeza Rice discussing "the right time to strike IRAN." I think you need to look at what else is happening in the world to understand this topic.
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Post by LesT on Feb 5, 2005 15:28:21 GMT 1
Hey Petar, what a good post you left here. Thanks!
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Post by loveu2 on Feb 5, 2005 19:13:07 GMT 1
You don't want Croatia in the EU? If it is prospering so well externally, why are you in the USA? Where do you live....HMMMM I bet England, with a few trips a year to croatia to a summer home you scammed off some old timers. ;D So now you think your Hrvatska and you can tell everyone what they should think about Croatia. Do you work in Croatia. I bet you only have residency there so you can get your retirement-tax free & other income-tax free! I bet your pound goes along way in Croatia compared to England! Why do you come to Croatia....really...do tell? We know it's not for the golf! Maybe you want EU, to make it easier for you to buy more houses from unfortunate Croatians Also if you are so concerned about Croatia get your citzenship and vote! But by all means tell us your thoughts about why you are in Croatia? We are all eager to hear! LoveU2
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Post by Three Lions on Feb 6, 2005 8:20:23 GMT 1
All rubbish, when it really comes down to it, you cannot say which country in the world is best to live in. If you asked a hundred different people you would get an awful lot of different answers. If I was an Eskimo I wouldn't want to live in India would I?
Also I'm an Englander and I've invested a lot of time and money and blood in Croatia and some people have even thanked me for it!
Also the pound doesn't go that far in Croatia because Croatia is, and is becoming even more so, bloody expensive!
Also yes if I want to play golf (and I don't) I would go to Portugal, because that's full of Brits and is a bloody nice place.
Also, if Croatians get their act together, they can catch up with Slovenia and start making their country work for them instead of just letting the local mafia get everything (see other posts on this site about local mafia).
Also as I've already said the International War Trials Tribunal in the Hague is "international" it is not based in Sheffield. Carla Del Ponte has said that Croatia is moving too slow. Stay backward like Serbia or leave them behind and join the EU. ?
Also as an Englander I can of course say that not everything is good about about the EU. I don't necessarily think that it is a good thing for Croatia to join the EU. May be they really don't want too. But then again they probably don't have a choice anyway when you think so many Croatians still have to go and get work in Italy and Germany.
Also English can already buy houses in Croatia, if it joins the EU then prices will go up making it harder to buy?
At least if Croatia joins the EU it will shake off the image of the war.
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